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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3577561" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>Is Ordained Champion in Complete Champion? Everything I've seen in that book is absurd. Abjurant Champion has a few decently munchy abilities, but at least it is designed for the much-weaker Fighter-heavy Fighter/Mage. If you play it RAW, where it doesn't affect Mage Armour because the author screwed up, it's a bit less dangerous. I figured you'd compare to something more similar to EK though--Knight Phantom.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The feat requirement of MC is not a requirement for the Wizard class. Only the skill rank requirement really exists.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If Eldritch/Cerebral Crafter was really the capstone ability, I would have no trouble with this class, even if it just missed a single caster level (say, just the first one, to discourage dipping). The trouble is that the class's true capstone is getting another imbue point, and the second-best abilities are the ones that make all crafting cheaper twice. Eldritch Crafter is cool, useful, and not overpowered.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you drop out earlier, you lose even more of the advantage, though, and you pay the full price. Frex--let's say you drop out of EK at level 5, same PrC level as MC ends. For your money (and your two caster levels), you've gained a bonus feat, +3 additional BAB over Wizard, and +5 HP over Wizard. The MC will have gained two bonus feats, +1 additional BAB over Wizard, +5 HP over Wizard, and all the other specials (which include imbue weapon enhancements that will more than make up for the +2 BAB advantage that the EK has over the MC if you use them on your own blade). If you don't stick EK out to the end, MC is actually a better Fighter/Mage than the EK <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Extra abilities aren't what makes the class overpowered--extra abilities that can't be balanced against something else that another such class has make the class unbalanced against the other class. For example, if the Barbarian had an equal number of (or even one or less) feats as Fighter and also had all the Barbarian abilities, I would complain that the Barbarian is overpowered compared to Fighter due to having the same feats and more HP, skill points, and extra abilities above and beyond the Fighter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 3577561, member: 29014"] Is Ordained Champion in Complete Champion? Everything I've seen in that book is absurd. Abjurant Champion has a few decently munchy abilities, but at least it is designed for the much-weaker Fighter-heavy Fighter/Mage. If you play it RAW, where it doesn't affect Mage Armour because the author screwed up, it's a bit less dangerous. I figured you'd compare to something more similar to EK though--Knight Phantom. The feat requirement of MC is not a requirement for the Wizard class. Only the skill rank requirement really exists. If Eldritch/Cerebral Crafter was really the capstone ability, I would have no trouble with this class, even if it just missed a single caster level (say, just the first one, to discourage dipping). The trouble is that the class's true capstone is getting another imbue point, and the second-best abilities are the ones that make all crafting cheaper twice. Eldritch Crafter is cool, useful, and not overpowered. If you drop out earlier, you lose even more of the advantage, though, and you pay the full price. Frex--let's say you drop out of EK at level 5, same PrC level as MC ends. For your money (and your two caster levels), you've gained a bonus feat, +3 additional BAB over Wizard, and +5 HP over Wizard. The MC will have gained two bonus feats, +1 additional BAB over Wizard, +5 HP over Wizard, and all the other specials (which include imbue weapon enhancements that will more than make up for the +2 BAB advantage that the EK has over the MC if you use them on your own blade). If you don't stick EK out to the end, MC is actually a better Fighter/Mage than the EK :uhoh: Extra abilities aren't what makes the class overpowered--extra abilities that can't be balanced against something else that another such class has make the class unbalanced against the other class. For example, if the Barbarian had an equal number of (or even one or less) feats as Fighter and also had all the Barbarian abilities, I would complain that the Barbarian is overpowered compared to Fighter due to having the same feats and more HP, skill points, and extra abilities above and beyond the Fighter. [/QUOTE]
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