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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 6048776" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>My biggest fear is an illogical game design process, where only flavor is taken into account and not mechanics, or the prime purpose is simply to copy an older class design with new rules. I saw the same thing in 3.x class design and often see the same thing in class in Pathfinder (the alchemist is an example of this). It gets even worse when WotC decides to hardcode a class's flavor (paladin code, ranger magic) even when large numbers of potential consumers don't like them, just because they're "classic".</p><p></p><p>I'm not interested in flavorless number boosts either, we saw lots of 3e fighter feats like that. Weapon Specialization should have been a class feature in 3.x, and it was boring - just bonuses to damage. 4e powers were so much more interesting. I'm glad to see maneuvers, even if they're not clarifying class roles.</p><p></p><p>Role clarity is something sorely missing. It's never been in D&D before 4e, and lots of people hate on it, so WotC seems to scared to even look at it. Before, we had fighters, wizards and (in 3.x) rogues all competing to do the most damage. Clerics had a mix of spells that made no sense, and in some editions you could build a cleric that added nothing to a party. In 4e, roles were clarified. In D&DN, roles are being tossed overboard. I count the cleric as one example. They're still healers, thank the pantheons. (Non-healing priests are another class. Invoker?) Unfortunately, they're not really clerics, they're wizards with religious overtones. How is Radiant Lance (now called Lance of Faith...) a cleric power? It's a direct damage wizard spell. It just has religious flavor to it. If you're looking to kill things with your light zap spell, shouldn't you be playing a wizard? Why do clerics cast spells like Hold Person? Isn't that also a wizard spell? And if they're just religious wizards, why not Hold Monster?</p><p></p><p>The good news are classes tend to get better over time, at least the mechanical aspects, even if WotC seems to have no intention of clarifying roles. I doubt WotC will take away ranger magic <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> but the monk in earlier editions (prior to 4e) was so badly designed WotC probably felt they had no choice but to redesign the mechanics from scratch. There's still a few flavor issues (alignment, immunity to poison) but they're far less serious than 3.x/Pathfinder's monk.</p><p></p><p>Tossing out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to 4e design. Things like roles, siloing rituals (Comprehend Languages should not be competing with combat spells) and healing rules that don't suck are getting thrown away. (On the latter point, after playing 4e I can't enjoy playing a healer in Pathfinder. You have to give up your entire action unless you're right beside the wounded PC. Standard to cast, move to ... move ... and no time to do stuff you actually want to do.) A lot of people didn't like 4e, but I doubt they'll run screaming if you keep the good parts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 6048776, member: 1165"] My biggest fear is an illogical game design process, where only flavor is taken into account and not mechanics, or the prime purpose is simply to copy an older class design with new rules. I saw the same thing in 3.x class design and often see the same thing in class in Pathfinder (the alchemist is an example of this). It gets even worse when WotC decides to hardcode a class's flavor (paladin code, ranger magic) even when large numbers of potential consumers don't like them, just because they're "classic". I'm not interested in flavorless number boosts either, we saw lots of 3e fighter feats like that. Weapon Specialization should have been a class feature in 3.x, and it was boring - just bonuses to damage. 4e powers were so much more interesting. I'm glad to see maneuvers, even if they're not clarifying class roles. Role clarity is something sorely missing. It's never been in D&D before 4e, and lots of people hate on it, so WotC seems to scared to even look at it. Before, we had fighters, wizards and (in 3.x) rogues all competing to do the most damage. Clerics had a mix of spells that made no sense, and in some editions you could build a cleric that added nothing to a party. In 4e, roles were clarified. In D&DN, roles are being tossed overboard. I count the cleric as one example. They're still healers, thank the pantheons. (Non-healing priests are another class. Invoker?) Unfortunately, they're not really clerics, they're wizards with religious overtones. How is Radiant Lance (now called Lance of Faith...) a cleric power? It's a direct damage wizard spell. It just has religious flavor to it. If you're looking to kill things with your light zap spell, shouldn't you be playing a wizard? Why do clerics cast spells like Hold Person? Isn't that also a wizard spell? And if they're just religious wizards, why not Hold Monster? The good news are classes tend to get better over time, at least the mechanical aspects, even if WotC seems to have no intention of clarifying roles. I doubt WotC will take away ranger magic :( but the monk in earlier editions (prior to 4e) was so badly designed WotC probably felt they had no choice but to redesign the mechanics from scratch. There's still a few flavor issues (alignment, immunity to poison) but they're far less serious than 3.x/Pathfinder's monk. Tossing out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to 4e design. Things like roles, siloing rituals (Comprehend Languages should not be competing with combat spells) and healing rules that don't suck are getting thrown away. (On the latter point, after playing 4e I can't enjoy playing a healer in Pathfinder. You have to give up your entire action unless you're right beside the wounded PC. Standard to cast, move to ... move ... and no time to do stuff you actually want to do.) A lot of people didn't like 4e, but I doubt they'll run screaming if you keep the good parts. [/QUOTE]
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