Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mearls On D&D's Design Premises/Goals
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="TwoSix" data-source="post: 7759679" data-attributes="member: 205"><p>I think this shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what motivates mechanical players. We're not looking for options to make good builds better, we're looking for options to make bad builds good, and thus increase the number of playable options.</p><p></p><p>Simple proof. There isn't a much more mechanically complex system than Pathfinder. In PF, it's almost universally recognized that full casters like Wizard, Cleric, and Druid are a cut above every other class. (They're the "Tier 1" classes). And yet, if you go to a site like <a href="http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-comprehensive-pathfinder-guides.html" target="_blank">Zenith Games</a>, which indexes almost every Char Op guide that exists in Pathfinder, you'll see just as much attention, if not more, spent on weaker classes like Fighter or Monk or Kineticist as you do on Clerics and Wizards.</p><p></p><p>Why? Because optimizing powerful classes like Wizards is <em>boring</em>. Coming up with an off-the-wall concept like "grappler that sets people on fire" and figuring out how to make it work is like 90% of the fun of character building. </p><p></p><p>I know we're supposed to play at the table, not away from the table, narrative first as a design goal, etc, but I still regret that marrying 5e's simple chassis with PF's flexibility wasn't a design goal, market forces be damned.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TwoSix, post: 7759679, member: 205"] I think this shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what motivates mechanical players. We're not looking for options to make good builds better, we're looking for options to make bad builds good, and thus increase the number of playable options. Simple proof. There isn't a much more mechanically complex system than Pathfinder. In PF, it's almost universally recognized that full casters like Wizard, Cleric, and Druid are a cut above every other class. (They're the "Tier 1" classes). And yet, if you go to a site like [URL="http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-comprehensive-pathfinder-guides.html"]Zenith Games[/URL], which indexes almost every Char Op guide that exists in Pathfinder, you'll see just as much attention, if not more, spent on weaker classes like Fighter or Monk or Kineticist as you do on Clerics and Wizards. Why? Because optimizing powerful classes like Wizards is [I]boring[/I]. Coming up with an off-the-wall concept like "grappler that sets people on fire" and figuring out how to make it work is like 90% of the fun of character building. I know we're supposed to play at the table, not away from the table, narrative first as a design goal, etc, but I still regret that marrying 5e's simple chassis with PF's flexibility wasn't a design goal, market forces be damned. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mearls On D&D's Design Premises/Goals
Top