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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7759863" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I would go one step further, at least as far as personal preference is concerned: in a RPG these should be the same thing.</p><p></p><p>We disagree a bit on this point, I think, at least in principle. I tend to prefer a game in which mechanical differences are expressed as modifications to the base action resolution system (eg bonuses to checks, perhaps allowing a check to do something it normally wouldn't permit eg affect supernatural as well as mortal beings). Complex rules changes located in individual packets (some 4e feats would fit this description; BW has a similar element in PC build, though often less dramatic in its scope) can more easily lead to breakage.</p><p></p><p>But bonuses can certainly distinguish between PCs, at least in my experience: a character becomes known for being the one who can do XYZ when others struggle with it. (I can see that d20 and bounded accuracy might blunt the force of this: I'm becoming an increasing fan of non-linear resolution systems, like Classic Traveller's 2d6 or dice pool systems; 4e approximates towards a non-linear system because of the multiple rolls required for both combat and sklll challenges, and because it has quite a bit of re-roll and similar player-side options.)</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I saw this, which is relevant to the previous couple of paragraphs of my post:</p><p></p><p>When it comes to differences within combat, I agree that changing a bit of defence for a bit of offence, with little else different, isn't very interesting difference.</p><p></p><p>Whereas a high bonus in Intimidate compared to a high bonus in Diplomacy/Persuasion will (in my experience) produce differences in the play of the fiction, the different fight builds less so.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure I agree that the ranged character doesn't mark a difference, as fighting with different positioning is a difference in the fiction and not just a difference in mechanical process used to generate the fiction. (From my 4e game, some interesting differences in weapony-fighting - in the sense of generating different fiction and not just different dice rolls to get to the same fiction - include close burst-er vs solo target lockdown specialist; archer vs melee; skirmisher vs stand-and-fighter).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7759863, member: 42582"] I would go one step further, at least as far as personal preference is concerned: in a RPG these should be the same thing. We disagree a bit on this point, I think, at least in principle. I tend to prefer a game in which mechanical differences are expressed as modifications to the base action resolution system (eg bonuses to checks, perhaps allowing a check to do something it normally wouldn't permit eg affect supernatural as well as mortal beings). Complex rules changes located in individual packets (some 4e feats would fit this description; BW has a similar element in PC build, though often less dramatic in its scope) can more easily lead to breakage. But bonuses can certainly distinguish between PCs, at least in my experience: a character becomes known for being the one who can do XYZ when others struggle with it. (I can see that d20 and bounded accuracy might blunt the force of this: I'm becoming an increasing fan of non-linear resolution systems, like Classic Traveller's 2d6 or dice pool systems; 4e approximates towards a non-linear system because of the multiple rolls required for both combat and sklll challenges, and because it has quite a bit of re-roll and similar player-side options.) EDIT: I saw this, which is relevant to the previous couple of paragraphs of my post: When it comes to differences within combat, I agree that changing a bit of defence for a bit of offence, with little else different, isn't very interesting difference. Whereas a high bonus in Intimidate compared to a high bonus in Diplomacy/Persuasion will (in my experience) produce differences in the play of the fiction, the different fight builds less so. I'm not sure I agree that the ranged character doesn't mark a difference, as fighting with different positioning is a difference in the fiction and not just a difference in mechanical process used to generate the fiction. (From my 4e game, some interesting differences in weapony-fighting - in the sense of generating different fiction and not just different dice rolls to get to the same fiction - include close burst-er vs solo target lockdown specialist; archer vs melee; skirmisher vs stand-and-fighter). [/QUOTE]
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