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Mearls On D&D's Design Premises/Goals
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<blockquote data-quote="Doctor Futurity" data-source="post: 7760673" data-attributes="member: 10738"><p>I disagree that its crummy maths, and I think its designed to create characters with two key strong points and four exploitable weak points. The Issues with the DCs become noticeable against very potent opponents, but it makes the ability to engage high level PCs with lower CR challenges much more feasible and interesting. My own experience with D&D in general is that the DCs simply aren't tough enough for most of a PC's career, anyway, so the weak spots a PC has with saves are critical to making any threat feel "threatening" as a result. I suppose an argument could be made that there are other ways to balance this out, sure......but I am not having any issues with the system as it currently stands, and it functions a lot better for my needs than all prior save systems in editions 1 through 4, so it's hard for me to find a point of agreement that the maths are bad in this scenario when they finally, for the first time, feel right. Your own example, to use it again, demonstrates that you're trying to work out a contrived method of "fixing" something that isn't broken. The question I raise is: how often are your PCs actually running in to DC 23 saving throws? At what level are these a thing that happens consistently enough to be a major threat? And most importantly, how is it that the PCs have reached such a high level and are still (as a group) unable to resolve this DC? I've yet to see this happen in my games, but I'll concede I haven't run anything higher than level 17 yet.</p><p></p><p></p><p>(EDIT: to be clear, I have seen DC 23s come in to play on rare occasion and they appear to be very nonthreatening to players, especially players with a modicum of cooperation in the group; a PC with the right save will make it, every time, and the ones who don't have that save as a primary will usually fail, sure....but that's clearly the game working as intended, not some sort of accident of design. The fact that the GM can count on this to be a likely outcome is icing on the cake, it makes prepping high level conflicts and having some idea of how they will play out much easier to determine.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Doctor Futurity, post: 7760673, member: 10738"] I disagree that its crummy maths, and I think its designed to create characters with two key strong points and four exploitable weak points. The Issues with the DCs become noticeable against very potent opponents, but it makes the ability to engage high level PCs with lower CR challenges much more feasible and interesting. My own experience with D&D in general is that the DCs simply aren't tough enough for most of a PC's career, anyway, so the weak spots a PC has with saves are critical to making any threat feel "threatening" as a result. I suppose an argument could be made that there are other ways to balance this out, sure......but I am not having any issues with the system as it currently stands, and it functions a lot better for my needs than all prior save systems in editions 1 through 4, so it's hard for me to find a point of agreement that the maths are bad in this scenario when they finally, for the first time, feel right. Your own example, to use it again, demonstrates that you're trying to work out a contrived method of "fixing" something that isn't broken. The question I raise is: how often are your PCs actually running in to DC 23 saving throws? At what level are these a thing that happens consistently enough to be a major threat? And most importantly, how is it that the PCs have reached such a high level and are still (as a group) unable to resolve this DC? I've yet to see this happen in my games, but I'll concede I haven't run anything higher than level 17 yet. (EDIT: to be clear, I have seen DC 23s come in to play on rare occasion and they appear to be very nonthreatening to players, especially players with a modicum of cooperation in the group; a PC with the right save will make it, every time, and the ones who don't have that save as a primary will usually fail, sure....but that's clearly the game working as intended, not some sort of accident of design. The fact that the GM can count on this to be a likely outcome is icing on the cake, it makes prepping high level conflicts and having some idea of how they will play out much easier to determine.) [/QUOTE]
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