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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Melee Training Restored
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7460054" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>The move to fighters, say, making MBAs all the time looked like a direct response to the problems that old/returning players had grokking powers. You give a new player a 4e sheet, and they'll look at what they can do and pick something. You give an old player a 4e sheet and - well, first of all, they ask for a fighter, expecting it to be simple & fammiliar, so they can ease into the new system - they look for their weapons, expecting there to be damage & other stats with the weapon that they'll add to their STR mods, etc... their eyes slide right over Tide of Iron &c. </p><p></p><p>So, Essentials sheets put your basic attack with your main weapon right on the front page in big type, and then tried to base everything off your MBA. </p><p></p><p>OK, yes, it was not a great design.</p><p></p><p> My impression from the PH1 was that, yeah, there's some classes, like the rogue & CHA pally that can be perfectly great in melee, /and/ do some other cool stuff by dint of CHA or DEX being more useful in another pillar than STR, for instance, but the STR guys got the better MBAs, thus their OAs &c were solid.</p><p></p><p>When Melee Training gave that to basically everyone, the Fighter and already-kinda-hosed TWF Ranger, and STR Paladin didn't get a lot in compensation for the universalizing of one of their advantages. The STR Cleric eventually got the Mearls-special Battle Cleric power-up, though. ;|</p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, there were a number of impressions I got early on that were later undermined. For instance, I noticed the 'math problem,' that PCs would fall behind the curve a bit at paragon & epic, ceteris parabus, but I figured all those dailies, items, and scaling leader powers would probably compensate for that quite nicely...</p><p>...then Expertise.</p><p></p><p>::shrug::</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7460054, member: 996"] The move to fighters, say, making MBAs all the time looked like a direct response to the problems that old/returning players had grokking powers. You give a new player a 4e sheet, and they'll look at what they can do and pick something. You give an old player a 4e sheet and - well, first of all, they ask for a fighter, expecting it to be simple & fammiliar, so they can ease into the new system - they look for their weapons, expecting there to be damage & other stats with the weapon that they'll add to their STR mods, etc... their eyes slide right over Tide of Iron &c. So, Essentials sheets put your basic attack with your main weapon right on the front page in big type, and then tried to base everything off your MBA. OK, yes, it was not a great design. My impression from the PH1 was that, yeah, there's some classes, like the rogue & CHA pally that can be perfectly great in melee, /and/ do some other cool stuff by dint of CHA or DEX being more useful in another pillar than STR, for instance, but the STR guys got the better MBAs, thus their OAs &c were solid. When Melee Training gave that to basically everyone, the Fighter and already-kinda-hosed TWF Ranger, and STR Paladin didn't get a lot in compensation for the universalizing of one of their advantages. The STR Cleric eventually got the Mearls-special Battle Cleric power-up, though. ;| Of course, there were a number of impressions I got early on that were later undermined. For instance, I noticed the 'math problem,' that PCs would fall behind the curve a bit at paragon & epic, ceteris parabus, but I figured all those dailies, items, and scaling leader powers would probably compensate for that quite nicely... ...then Expertise. ::shrug:: [/QUOTE]
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