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Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord
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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 7364766" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>If that's the criteria, you've lost before firing your first bullet.</p><p></p><p>You can't make everyone happy. Nothing can. Even if we ignore all the h4ters and obvious negative opinions, there is a sharp divide among the "fans" as to what and how to do it. I mean, by your own posting history, I could safely say you are not a fan of either elves or clerics, since you are happy with neither. </p><p></p><p>Warlord faces some serious issues it needs to sort out before a consensus can be reached: the first being its frakkin name (its amazing how many people, even self-professed warlord fans, hate the name "warlord"). We can't even decide on if he's going to be called a warlord, marshal, banneret, captain, leader, noble, or simply "Sue".</p><p></p><p>Further, unlike all the other classes released so far, there isn't a non-4e version of the class to look at for a guide on how to mimic without the ADEU structure. (Well, there's the marshal, but most warlord fans tend to think he's lacking). Nearly all 5e classes start with a 3e-based version of the class and then layer on and change things from there (even artificer, though mystic seems to want to call back to the 2e psionicist rather than the 3e psion). Warlord has only one model; the ADEU one, and it struggles to fit in a game not defined by that power-structure and play-style. Paladins, Barbarians, Warlocks, and Druids all easily abandoned the ADEU structure because prior editions provided the tools (smites, spells, rages, invocations, wild shape) to make them work without it. Warlords lack that, and the attempts to make it work (via superiority dice, resolve points, hit dice, or even pseudo "spell" slots) haven't provided a generally agreed upon mechanic. </p><p></p><p>Even further than that, there is still a large gulf on of agreement on what a warlord should be able to actually do. The vague general terms (heal, buff, support, extra actions) seem a good starting point, but like how nobody agrees on what mechanic to have the warlord use, nobody really agrees on what the warlord's net effect should be. Take warlord healing: does he heal damage or provide temp hp? Does his healing use the recipients HD, the warlord's, HD, or some other resource? Can he heal a fallen ally or only if the recipient is still conscious? Should healing be a primary function (akin to cleric) or secondary (like a druid or bard)? </p><p></p><p>For another example, take support. This catch-all term generally means "can replace a cleric/druid/bard in a party" but its hard to say what the warlord is doing and how is he doing it nonmagically. A cleric, beyond healing hp, provides status-removal (lesser/greater restoration), information (divination, commune), transportation (word of recall, wind walk), even resurrection (raise dead, revivify). How does a warlord even begin to compete with those features "nonmagically"? In 4e, he could because the majority of a cleric's "prayers" were attacks with riders and more powerful effects like I mentioned got siloed into rituals (or some utility powers) than anyone could learn with a feat. A cleric's function in 4e wasn't defined by remove affliction, divination, or raise dead; but in 5e it is. A 5e warlord cannot replace a cleric unless he is able to replicate the effects of magic, which begins to defeat the purpose.</p><p></p><p>For me, it seems like a fool's errand to keep trying to replicate the 4e warlord in 5e. Yes, there room for a dedicated warlord class in 5e, one who can restore vigor, buff allies, and use brilliant tactics to aid in combat, but the minute you try to make him a non-magical cleric replacement, the class falls apart rapidly. At this point, it might be a better (and more fruitful) endeavor to stop asking "how do I recreate the 4e warlord in 5e?" and start asking "What does a tactical, inspiring martial leader look like given 5e's design paradigm?" </p><p></p><p>For me, he looks a lot more like a non-magical/non-divine paladin, but that's another topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 7364766, member: 7635"] If that's the criteria, you've lost before firing your first bullet. You can't make everyone happy. Nothing can. Even if we ignore all the h4ters and obvious negative opinions, there is a sharp divide among the "fans" as to what and how to do it. I mean, by your own posting history, I could safely say you are not a fan of either elves or clerics, since you are happy with neither. Warlord faces some serious issues it needs to sort out before a consensus can be reached: the first being its frakkin name (its amazing how many people, even self-professed warlord fans, hate the name "warlord"). We can't even decide on if he's going to be called a warlord, marshal, banneret, captain, leader, noble, or simply "Sue". Further, unlike all the other classes released so far, there isn't a non-4e version of the class to look at for a guide on how to mimic without the ADEU structure. (Well, there's the marshal, but most warlord fans tend to think he's lacking). Nearly all 5e classes start with a 3e-based version of the class and then layer on and change things from there (even artificer, though mystic seems to want to call back to the 2e psionicist rather than the 3e psion). Warlord has only one model; the ADEU one, and it struggles to fit in a game not defined by that power-structure and play-style. Paladins, Barbarians, Warlocks, and Druids all easily abandoned the ADEU structure because prior editions provided the tools (smites, spells, rages, invocations, wild shape) to make them work without it. Warlords lack that, and the attempts to make it work (via superiority dice, resolve points, hit dice, or even pseudo "spell" slots) haven't provided a generally agreed upon mechanic. Even further than that, there is still a large gulf on of agreement on what a warlord should be able to actually do. The vague general terms (heal, buff, support, extra actions) seem a good starting point, but like how nobody agrees on what mechanic to have the warlord use, nobody really agrees on what the warlord's net effect should be. Take warlord healing: does he heal damage or provide temp hp? Does his healing use the recipients HD, the warlord's, HD, or some other resource? Can he heal a fallen ally or only if the recipient is still conscious? Should healing be a primary function (akin to cleric) or secondary (like a druid or bard)? For another example, take support. This catch-all term generally means "can replace a cleric/druid/bard in a party" but its hard to say what the warlord is doing and how is he doing it nonmagically. A cleric, beyond healing hp, provides status-removal (lesser/greater restoration), information (divination, commune), transportation (word of recall, wind walk), even resurrection (raise dead, revivify). How does a warlord even begin to compete with those features "nonmagically"? In 4e, he could because the majority of a cleric's "prayers" were attacks with riders and more powerful effects like I mentioned got siloed into rituals (or some utility powers) than anyone could learn with a feat. A cleric's function in 4e wasn't defined by remove affliction, divination, or raise dead; but in 5e it is. A 5e warlord cannot replace a cleric unless he is able to replicate the effects of magic, which begins to defeat the purpose. For me, it seems like a fool's errand to keep trying to replicate the 4e warlord in 5e. Yes, there room for a dedicated warlord class in 5e, one who can restore vigor, buff allies, and use brilliant tactics to aid in combat, but the minute you try to make him a non-magical cleric replacement, the class falls apart rapidly. At this point, it might be a better (and more fruitful) endeavor to stop asking "how do I recreate the 4e warlord in 5e?" and start asking "What does a tactical, inspiring martial leader look like given 5e's design paradigm?" For me, he looks a lot more like a non-magical/non-divine paladin, but that's another topic. [/QUOTE]
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