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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Mike Mearls on how D&D 4E could have looked
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7763160" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Gygax's DMG, pp 110-11:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Serving some deity is an integral part of AD&D. . . . [T]he accumulation of hit points and the ever-greater abilities and better saving throws represents the aid supplied by supernatural forces.</p><p></p><p>This is consistent with the description of hit points on p 82, which includes</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">the increase in hit points . . . reflect<s> both the actual physical ability of the character . . . and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-and-death situations, the "sixth sense", sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection.</s></p><p><s></s></p><p><s></s></p><p><s>There is also the discussion on pp 80-81 of saving throws:</s></p><p><s></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>By means of skill, luck, magical protections, quirks of fate and the aid of supernatural powers, the character making his or her saving throw takes none or only part of the indicated results . . .</p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s></p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>Could a man chained to a rock . . . save himself from the blast of a red dragon's breath? Why not . . .? . . . Imagine that the figure, at the last moment of course, manages to drop beneath the licking flames, or finds a crevice or crack to shield his or her body, or succeeds in finding a way to be free of the fetters? . . .</p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s></p></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>If some further rationale is needed, here is one way of looking at it. . . . A character under magical attack is in a stress situation, and his or her own will force reacts instinctively to protect the character by slightly altering the effects of the magical assault. . . . Magic-users understand spells, even at an unconscious level, and are able to slightly tamper with one so as to render it ineffective. Fighters withstand them through sheer defiance, while clerics create a small island of faith. Thieves find they are able to avoid a spell's full effects by quickness . . .</p><p></s></p><p><s>Now Gygax seems to have envisaged all this operating primarily in quintessential "adventuring" situations. From p 81 again:</s></p><p><s></s></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><s>The mechanics of combat or the details of the injury caused by some horrible weapon are not the key to heroic fantasy and adventure games. It is the character, how he or she became involved in the combat, how he or she somehow escapes - or fails to escape - the mortal threat which is important to the enjoyment and longevity of the game.</p><p></s></p><p><s>But there is no reason, in principle, why the same approach to avoiding a dragon's breath, escaping a magical effect, surviving "impossible" odds in combat, etc couldn't be extended to a character shoving his/her hands into the forge to hold the hammer steady despite the power of the magical forces, so that the artificers can hold and work it with their tools.</s></p><p><s></s></p><p><s>However, I personally have never encountered an AD&D referee who would permit this action declaration, nor seen an AD&D rulebook or adventure that would suggest it is permissible. 4e is a major breakthrough in this respect: it maintains the spirit of Gygax's approach to hit points, saving throws etc but provides a clear framework (skill challenges) and fiction (the tiers of play, paragon path descriptions, etc) to enable its extension beyond combat and dragon breath to the full range of fantasy endeavour.</s></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7763160, member: 42582"] Gygax's DMG, pp 110-11: [indent]Serving some deity is an integral part of AD&D. . . . [T]he accumulation of hit points and the ever-greater abilities and better saving throws represents the aid supplied by supernatural forces.[/indent] This is consistent with the description of hit points on p 82, which includes [indent]the increase in hit points . . . reflect[s] both the actual physical ability of the character . . . and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-and-death situations, the "sixth sense", sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection.[/s][/indent][s] There is also the discussion on pp 80-81 of saving throws: [indent]By means of skill, luck, magical protections, quirks of fate and the aid of supernatural powers, the character making his or her saving throw takes none or only part of the indicated results . . . Could a man chained to a rock . . . save himself from the blast of a red dragon's breath? Why not . . .? . . . Imagine that the figure, at the last moment of course, manages to drop beneath the licking flames, or finds a crevice or crack to shield his or her body, or succeeds in finding a way to be free of the fetters? . . . If some further rationale is needed, here is one way of looking at it. . . . A character under magical attack is in a stress situation, and his or her own will force reacts instinctively to protect the character by slightly altering the effects of the magical assault. . . . Magic-users understand spells, even at an unconscious level, and are able to slightly tamper with one so as to render it ineffective. Fighters withstand them through sheer defiance, while clerics create a small island of faith. Thieves find they are able to avoid a spell's full effects by quickness . . .[/indent] Now Gygax seems to have envisaged all this operating primarily in quintessential "adventuring" situations. From p 81 again: [indent]The mechanics of combat or the details of the injury caused by some horrible weapon are not the key to heroic fantasy and adventure games. It is the character, how he or she became involved in the combat, how he or she somehow escapes - or fails to escape - the mortal threat which is important to the enjoyment and longevity of the game.[/indent] But there is no reason, in principle, why the same approach to avoiding a dragon's breath, escaping a magical effect, surviving "impossible" odds in combat, etc couldn't be extended to a character shoving his/her hands into the forge to hold the hammer steady despite the power of the magical forces, so that the artificers can hold and work it with their tools. However, I personally have never encountered an AD&D referee who would permit this action declaration, nor seen an AD&D rulebook or adventure that would suggest it is permissible. 4e is a major breakthrough in this respect: it maintains the spirit of Gygax's approach to hit points, saving throws etc but provides a clear framework (skill challenges) and fiction (the tiers of play, paragon path descriptions, etc) to enable its extension beyond combat and dragon breath to the full range of fantasy endeavour.[/s] [/QUOTE]
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