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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7482281" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>It’s not about specific phrasing, it’s about giving the DM enough information to make a judgment call about the results. Just telling me “I want to do an investigation check” doesn’t tell me what you are trying to learn or how you are going about trying to learn it, which makes it impossible not only to determine if you need to make a check in the first place, but also what the difficulty of a check might be of one is necessary. “I make an Athletics check to jump further than I normally can” actually does give me enough information. Your goal is to cover more ground than you can normally jump, and your method is by jumping. From that description of what your character is doing, it is my job as DM to determine what the results are, and skill checks are a tool to help me make that determination in the case of an uncertain outcome. Personally, I would say that your approach, “jump” does not have a reasonable chance of success at achieving your goal, “cover more ground than I can by jumping,” so I would tell you an Athletics check is not necessary. You would fail. But I would also say that and give you the opportunity to try something else, rather than skipping straight to narrating the failure, just as I would provide you with an opportunity to change your mind after I told you the DC if I felt a check was necessary. Other DMs might rule differently, and that’s perfectly fine.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the fundamental difference in our approaches is not about give and take or lack thereof, but about the role of skills. To you, Skills are a player tool for interfacing with the game world. To me, Skills are a DM tool for determining the outcomes of actions that are not otherwise clear.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7482281, member: 6779196"] It’s not about specific phrasing, it’s about giving the DM enough information to make a judgment call about the results. Just telling me “I want to do an investigation check” doesn’t tell me what you are trying to learn or how you are going about trying to learn it, which makes it impossible not only to determine if you need to make a check in the first place, but also what the difficulty of a check might be of one is necessary. “I make an Athletics check to jump further than I normally can” actually does give me enough information. Your goal is to cover more ground than you can normally jump, and your method is by jumping. From that description of what your character is doing, it is my job as DM to determine what the results are, and skill checks are a tool to help me make that determination in the case of an uncertain outcome. Personally, I would say that your approach, “jump” does not have a reasonable chance of success at achieving your goal, “cover more ground than I can by jumping,” so I would tell you an Athletics check is not necessary. You would fail. But I would also say that and give you the opportunity to try something else, rather than skipping straight to narrating the failure, just as I would provide you with an opportunity to change your mind after I told you the DC if I felt a check was necessary. Other DMs might rule differently, and that’s perfectly fine. I think the fundamental difference in our approaches is not about give and take or lack thereof, but about the role of skills. To you, Skills are a player tool for interfacing with the game world. To me, Skills are a DM tool for determining the outcomes of actions that are not otherwise clear. [/QUOTE]
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