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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7482561" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The issue isn't your clarity. It's my puzzlement. I'm puzzled as to what you can think of that might be an example of a character using his/her musculature to jump further than the distance permitted by p 64, where the result is uncertain and hence a STR (Athletics) check is called for.</p><p></p><p>If you don't want to conjecture an answer because it's all contextual, that's fine - I understand the relevance of context - but that doesn't dispel my puzzlement! When I think myself into your approach to the interpretation of pp 59 and 64, I find myself unable to think of something which gives the text on p 59 work to do.</p><p></p><p>But that's not in issue. I've suggested an approach, namely, "I jump". Or, if one wants to be more colourful, "I jump, giving it all I've got!"</p><p></p><p>What's in issue is that you regard the rules on p 64 as making it certain that such an approach will fail to allow the character to clear any distance greater than that mentioned on p 64. Whereas I don't regard that as the most natural reading of p 64, particularly once p 59 is considered.</p><p></p><p>P 64 says "Your Strength determines how far you can jump. . . . When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score".</p><p></p><p>I read that - in light of p 59, and in light also of the statement on pp 4 and 58 that a check is made when the outcome is uncertain - as saying that <em>A character's STR determines how far s/he can jump <u>with certainty</u>, namely, a number of feet equal to his/her STR score</em>. In other words, I read it not as stating a maximum but as stating a distance that can be covered with certainty.</p><p></p><p>Given that the human long jump record is over 29 feet for men, and over 24 feet for women, and that the winning jump at the 1896 Olympics was over 22 feet, I don't think that the outcome of an attempt by a muscled and athletically trained human in the D&D world to jump an 18' chasm is certain failure. Obviously, given the rule on p 64 and assuming less than 18 STR, it is not certainly successful either.</p><p></p><p>Hence it would be determined by a STR (Athletics) check made against an appropriate difficulty.</p><p></p><p>My reason for spelling this out is simply to demonstrate the point that what is at issue in this thread, at least as far as the current discussion is concerned, is not the proper way to adjudicate 5e, nor the closely related issue of whose job it is to call for checks, nor the issue of whether or not "I clear the chasm by jumping over it" states an approach to the goal of getting across the chasm - it manifestly does.</p><p></p><p>What is at issue is what the rule on p 64 makes certain and leaves uncertain. On this issue of jumping the chasm, that's the sole point of difference between me and [MENTION=6801558]robus[/MENTION] and I think [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION], [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=467]Reynard[/MENTION], on the one hand, and you and [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION] on the other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7482561, member: 42582"] The issue isn't your clarity. It's my puzzlement. I'm puzzled as to what you can think of that might be an example of a character using his/her musculature to jump further than the distance permitted by p 64, where the result is uncertain and hence a STR (Athletics) check is called for. If you don't want to conjecture an answer because it's all contextual, that's fine - I understand the relevance of context - but that doesn't dispel my puzzlement! When I think myself into your approach to the interpretation of pp 59 and 64, I find myself unable to think of something which gives the text on p 59 work to do. But that's not in issue. I've suggested an approach, namely, "I jump". Or, if one wants to be more colourful, "I jump, giving it all I've got!" What's in issue is that you regard the rules on p 64 as making it certain that such an approach will fail to allow the character to clear any distance greater than that mentioned on p 64. Whereas I don't regard that as the most natural reading of p 64, particularly once p 59 is considered. P 64 says "Your Strength determines how far you can jump. . . . When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score". I read that - in light of p 59, and in light also of the statement on pp 4 and 58 that a check is made when the outcome is uncertain - as saying that [I]A character's STR determines how far s/he can jump [U]with certainty[/U], namely, a number of feet equal to his/her STR score[/I]. In other words, I read it not as stating a maximum but as stating a distance that can be covered with certainty. Given that the human long jump record is over 29 feet for men, and over 24 feet for women, and that the winning jump at the 1896 Olympics was over 22 feet, I don't think that the outcome of an attempt by a muscled and athletically trained human in the D&D world to jump an 18' chasm is certain failure. Obviously, given the rule on p 64 and assuming less than 18 STR, it is not certainly successful either. Hence it would be determined by a STR (Athletics) check made against an appropriate difficulty. My reason for spelling this out is simply to demonstrate the point that what is at issue in this thread, at least as far as the current discussion is concerned, is not the proper way to adjudicate 5e, nor the closely related issue of whose job it is to call for checks, nor the issue of whether or not "I clear the chasm by jumping over it" states an approach to the goal of getting across the chasm - it manifestly does. What is at issue is what the rule on p 64 makes certain and leaves uncertain. On this issue of jumping the chasm, that's the sole point of difference between me and [MENTION=6801558]robus[/MENTION] and I think [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION], [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=467]Reynard[/MENTION], on the one hand, and you and [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION] on the other. [/QUOTE]
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