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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7485536" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Sure. I think the purpose of testing the bounds is to find an extreme, but plausible, case. Let's call it 24 Strength, but tier 3, so +7 +8 = +15 ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There are lots of things in heroic fantasy that seem excessive to me. A Tier 3 Half-Orc Champion Prodigy (Athletics), with Epic Strength leaping 49' is not one of them. Especially not when the Dragonborn "Dragoon" Warlock is jumping further!</p><p></p><p></p><p>I did consider that, and I am mindful of what 3 Strength entails. Two factors that weigh on this for me are 1) what is the pay off for added complication? and 2) could it be problematic at the table if weak creatures can't jump far? The answer to 1, for me, is that I don't really see any pay off. We get a more realistic version of something that is unrealistic in the first place. The answer to 2 is that how far characters need to jump is up to me as DM (I created the pit, chasm, etc they must jump, after all!) For things like jumping, swimming and climbing, I think the bigger risk is that weaker characters are too far from stronger characters, than that they are nearer. One ends up mandating that players help each other with a rope or whatever, in which case the weak character's jump is unimportant. I'd have more fun if the weak character gave it a try and plunged to their doom. I'm also mindful that the Cleric will throw in Guidance, the Monk will Step of the Wind, the Warlock will Otherworldly Leap, the Wizard might cast Jump, and the Bard throw Bardic Inspiration.</p><p></p><p>I did point out that scaling percentually could make more sense than a flat add, but a flat add is more streamlined. Steps of 3' feel decent. One could start at DC 5 and go steps of 2', but then nearly impossible is +12 not +15. Maybe that is better?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7485536, member: 71699"] Sure. I think the purpose of testing the bounds is to find an extreme, but plausible, case. Let's call it 24 Strength, but tier 3, so +7 +8 = +15 ability. There are lots of things in heroic fantasy that seem excessive to me. A Tier 3 Half-Orc Champion Prodigy (Athletics), with Epic Strength leaping 49' is not one of them. Especially not when the Dragonborn "Dragoon" Warlock is jumping further! I did consider that, and I am mindful of what 3 Strength entails. Two factors that weigh on this for me are 1) what is the pay off for added complication? and 2) could it be problematic at the table if weak creatures can't jump far? The answer to 1, for me, is that I don't really see any pay off. We get a more realistic version of something that is unrealistic in the first place. The answer to 2 is that how far characters need to jump is up to me as DM (I created the pit, chasm, etc they must jump, after all!) For things like jumping, swimming and climbing, I think the bigger risk is that weaker characters are too far from stronger characters, than that they are nearer. One ends up mandating that players help each other with a rope or whatever, in which case the weak character's jump is unimportant. I'd have more fun if the weak character gave it a try and plunged to their doom. I'm also mindful that the Cleric will throw in Guidance, the Monk will Step of the Wind, the Warlock will Otherworldly Leap, the Wizard might cast Jump, and the Bard throw Bardic Inspiration. I did point out that scaling percentually could make more sense than a flat add, but a flat add is more streamlined. Steps of 3' feel decent. One could start at DC 5 and go steps of 2', but then nearly impossible is +12 not +15. Maybe that is better? [/QUOTE]
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