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Monster damage realization - DPR per CR diminishes across the game
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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 9293778" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>This is quite interesting, but I think it's missing the other factor of offensive CR; namely, attack bonus. In 5e, AC is relatively static compared to earlier editions (particularly 3.x and 4e, both of which assumed a scaling AC), but attack bonus does scale with CR (it increases by +7 from CR 1/8 to CR 20).</p><p></p><p>If we look at it with attack bonus factored in, we get a significantly different result. I've based this on certain assumptions which may not be perfect. Consider this a rough draft meant to show my intent, rather than an analysis that is meant as the "be all end all". My math assumes that monsters will be attacking an average 17 AC, which does not improve with level. For attack bonus, I used the chart from DMG pg 274 (which, honestly, seems a bit low to me). I just expanded on your tables (it saved me from having to retype everything), I hope you don't mind.</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>CR 1/8 to 1/2</strong></td><td><strong>DPR</strong></td><td><strong>DPR per CR</strong></td><td><strong>ATT Bonus</strong></td><td><strong>Adjusted DPR</strong></td><td><strong>Adj DPR per CR</strong></td></tr><tr><td>0.125</td><td>3</td><td>24</td><td>+3</td><td>1.05</td><td>8.4</td></tr><tr><td>0.25</td><td>5</td><td>20</td><td>+3</td><td>1.75</td><td>7</td></tr><tr><td>0.5</td><td>10</td><td>20</td><td>+3</td><td>3.5</td><td>7</td></tr><tr><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>21.3333333333333</td><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>7.47</td></tr></table><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>CR 1 to 4</strong></td><td><strong>DPR</strong></td><td><strong>DPR per CR</strong></td><td><strong>ATT Bonus</strong></td><td><strong>Adjusted DPR</strong></td><td><strong>Adj DPR per CR</strong></td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>12</td><td>12</td><td>+3</td><td>4.2</td><td>4.2</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>17</td><td>8.5</td><td>+3</td><td>5.95</td><td>2.98</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>23</td><td>7.66666666666667</td><td>+4</td><td>9.2</td><td>3.07</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>29</td><td>7.25</td><td>+5</td><td>13.05</td><td>3.26</td></tr><tr><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>8.85416666666667</td><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>3.38</td></tr></table><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>CR 5 to 10</strong></td><td><strong>DPR</strong></td><td><strong>DPR per CR</strong></td><td><strong>ATT Bonus</strong></td><td><strong>Adjusted DPR</strong></td><td><strong>Adj DPR per CR</strong></td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>35</td><td>7</td><td>+6</td><td>17.5</td><td>3.5</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>41</td><td>6.83333333333333</td><td>+6</td><td>20.5</td><td>3.42</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>47</td><td>6.71428571428571</td><td>+6</td><td>23.5</td><td>3.36</td></tr><tr><td>8</td><td>53</td><td>6.625</td><td>+7</td><td>29.15</td><td>3.64</td></tr><tr><td>9</td><td>59</td><td>6.55555555555556</td><td>+7</td><td>32.45</td><td>3.61</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>65</td><td>6.5</td><td>+7</td><td>35.75</td><td>3.58</td></tr><tr><td></td><td><strong>AVG</strong></td><td>6.70469576719577</td><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>3.52</td></tr></table><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>CR 11 to 16</strong></td><td><strong>DPR</strong></td><td><strong>DPR per CR</strong></td><td><strong>ATT Bonus</strong></td><td><strong>Adjusted DPR</strong></td><td><strong>Adj DPR per CR</strong></td></tr><tr><td>11</td><td>71</td><td>6.45454545454545</td><td>+8</td><td>42.6</td><td>3.87</td></tr><tr><td>12</td><td>77</td><td>6.41666666666667</td><td>+8</td><td>46.2</td><td>3.85</td></tr><tr><td>13</td><td>83</td><td>6.38461538461538</td><td>+8</td><td>49.8</td><td>3.83</td></tr><tr><td>14</td><td>89</td><td>6.35714285714286</td><td>+8</td><td>53.4</td><td>3.81</td></tr><tr><td>15</td><td>95</td><td>6.33333333333333</td><td>+8</td><td>57</td><td>3.8</td></tr><tr><td>16</td><td>101</td><td>6.3125</td><td>+9</td><td>65.65</td><td>4.1</td></tr><tr><td></td><td><strong>AVG</strong></td><td>6.37646728271728</td><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>3.88</td></tr></table><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>CR 17 to 20</strong></td><td><strong>DPR</strong></td><td><strong>DPR per CR</strong></td><td><strong>ATT Bonus</strong></td><td><strong>Adjusted DPR</strong></td><td><strong>Adj DPR per CR</strong></td></tr><tr><td>17</td><td>107</td><td>6.29411764705882</td><td>+10</td><td>74.9</td><td>4.4</td></tr><tr><td>18</td><td>113</td><td>6.27777777777778</td><td>+10</td><td>79.1</td><td>4.39</td></tr><tr><td>19</td><td>119</td><td>6.26315789473684</td><td>+10</td><td>83.3</td><td>4.38</td></tr><tr><td>20</td><td>132</td><td>6.6</td><td>+10</td><td>92.4</td><td>4.62</td></tr><tr><td></td><td><strong>AVG</strong></td><td>6.35876332989336</td><td></td><td><strong>AVERAGE</strong></td><td>4.45</td></tr></table><p></p><p>From this we can see that, apart from CRs less than or equal to 1, monster's damage output slowly increases with CR over the tiers. Admittedly, this is based on my assumptions that PC ACs remain flat (on average) over the course of a campaign.</p><p></p><p>I would conclude that while average damage does appear to improve with CR, the scaling is unlikely to be sufficient to keep pace with the various mitigations characters gain access to as they level (uncanny dodge, CC spells, stunning strike, etc). The average adjusted improvement from CR 2 to CR 20 is +1.47 DRC per CR, which seems small overall.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 9293778, member: 53980"] This is quite interesting, but I think it's missing the other factor of offensive CR; namely, attack bonus. In 5e, AC is relatively static compared to earlier editions (particularly 3.x and 4e, both of which assumed a scaling AC), but attack bonus does scale with CR (it increases by +7 from CR 1/8 to CR 20). If we look at it with attack bonus factored in, we get a significantly different result. I've based this on certain assumptions which may not be perfect. Consider this a rough draft meant to show my intent, rather than an analysis that is meant as the "be all end all". My math assumes that monsters will be attacking an average 17 AC, which does not improve with level. For attack bonus, I used the chart from DMG pg 274 (which, honestly, seems a bit low to me). I just expanded on your tables (it saved me from having to retype everything), I hope you don't mind. [TABLE] [TR] [TD][B]CR 1/8 to 1/2[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]ATT Bonus[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adjusted DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adj DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]0.125[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]1.05[/TD] [TD]8.4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]0.25[/TD] [TD]5[/TD] [TD]20[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]1.75[/TD] [TD]7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]0.5[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]20[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]3.5[/TD] [TD]7[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]21.3333333333333[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]7.47[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD][B]CR 1 to 4[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]ATT Bonus[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adjusted DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adj DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]4.2[/TD] [TD]4.2[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]17[/TD] [TD]8.5[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]5.95[/TD] [TD]2.98[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]23[/TD] [TD]7.66666666666667[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]9.2[/TD] [TD]3.07[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]4[/TD] [TD]29[/TD] [TD]7.25[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]13.05[/TD] [TD]3.26[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]8.85416666666667[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]3.38[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD][B]CR 5 to 10[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]ATT Bonus[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adjusted DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adj DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]5[/TD] [TD]35[/TD] [TD]7[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]17.5[/TD] [TD]3.5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]6[/TD] [TD]41[/TD] [TD]6.83333333333333[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]20.5[/TD] [TD]3.42[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]7[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [TD]6.71428571428571[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]23.5[/TD] [TD]3.36[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]8[/TD] [TD]53[/TD] [TD]6.625[/TD] [TD]+7[/TD] [TD]29.15[/TD] [TD]3.64[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]59[/TD] [TD]6.55555555555556[/TD] [TD]+7[/TD] [TD]32.45[/TD] [TD]3.61[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]65[/TD] [TD]6.5[/TD] [TD]+7[/TD] [TD]35.75[/TD] [TD]3.58[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVG[/B][/TD] [TD]6.70469576719577[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]3.52[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD][B]CR 11 to 16[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]ATT Bonus[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adjusted DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adj DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]11[/TD] [TD]71[/TD] [TD]6.45454545454545[/TD] [TD]+8[/TD] [TD]42.6[/TD] [TD]3.87[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]77[/TD] [TD]6.41666666666667[/TD] [TD]+8[/TD] [TD]46.2[/TD] [TD]3.85[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]13[/TD] [TD]83[/TD] [TD]6.38461538461538[/TD] [TD]+8[/TD] [TD]49.8[/TD] [TD]3.83[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]89[/TD] [TD]6.35714285714286[/TD] [TD]+8[/TD] [TD]53.4[/TD] [TD]3.81[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]15[/TD] [TD]95[/TD] [TD]6.33333333333333[/TD] [TD]+8[/TD] [TD]57[/TD] [TD]3.8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]16[/TD] [TD]101[/TD] [TD]6.3125[/TD] [TD]+9[/TD] [TD]65.65[/TD] [TD]4.1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVG[/B][/TD] [TD]6.37646728271728[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]3.88[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD][B]CR 17 to 20[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]ATT Bonus[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adjusted DPR[/B][/TD] [TD][B]Adj DPR per CR[/B][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]17[/TD] [TD]107[/TD] [TD]6.29411764705882[/TD] [TD]+10[/TD] [TD]74.9[/TD] [TD]4.4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]18[/TD] [TD]113[/TD] [TD]6.27777777777778[/TD] [TD]+10[/TD] [TD]79.1[/TD] [TD]4.39[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]19[/TD] [TD]119[/TD] [TD]6.26315789473684[/TD] [TD]+10[/TD] [TD]83.3[/TD] [TD]4.38[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]20[/TD] [TD]132[/TD] [TD]6.6[/TD] [TD]+10[/TD] [TD]92.4[/TD] [TD]4.62[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVG[/B][/TD] [TD]6.35876332989336[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][B]AVERAGE[/B][/TD] [TD]4.45[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] From this we can see that, apart from CRs less than or equal to 1, monster's damage output slowly increases with CR over the tiers. Admittedly, this is based on my assumptions that PC ACs remain flat (on average) over the course of a campaign. I would conclude that while average damage does appear to improve with CR, the scaling is unlikely to be sufficient to keep pace with the various mitigations characters gain access to as they level (uncanny dodge, CC spells, stunning strike, etc). The average adjusted improvement from CR 2 to CR 20 is +1.47 DRC per CR, which seems small overall. [/QUOTE]
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