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Monsters with classes???
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6243893" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>Ok, but you also mentioned a very practical problem in 3e with spellcasting levels... so you should already know that 3e had indeed a default method for monsters with classes <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#monstersAndClassLevels" target="_blank">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#monstersAndClassLevels</a></p><p></p><p>Basically 3e applies the same mechanics of stacking levels that is used for multiclassing, only that a monster's HD work like a class in this regard.</p><p></p><p>It's a simple method, but it has its own shortcomings. CR calculation is not always reliable in 3e, and (as you mention yourself) adding wizard levels to a monster can have a very different effect than adding fighter levels, especially if the monster already starts with many HD. </p><p></p><p>It <em>might</em> actually work better in 5e thanks to bounded accuracy but I'm not sure.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps the problem has no ultimate solution, considering that we would like all of the following:</p><p></p><p>- player character classes with plenty of "stuff" per level, so that every time you level up there's something crunchy to gain</p><p>- simple monsters, not too much "stuff", so that the DM doesn't go nuts when running them or designing her own</p><p>- monsters with classes, so that the DM can easily create monster societies in her campaign (or even if just wanting a small group of monsters with different roles for a single fight)</p><p></p><p>Generally speaking, I think one approach that might work better, is a <em>gestalt</em> approach, or a method that <em>replaces </em>some of HD with class levels. Such is never going to be as simple as stacking levels, but in this case I'd give up simplicity for reliability (i.e. reliably calculating level/XP) and flexibility.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6243893, member: 1465"] Ok, but you also mentioned a very practical problem in 3e with spellcasting levels... so you should already know that 3e had indeed a default method for monsters with classes :) [url]http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#monstersAndClassLevels[/url] Basically 3e applies the same mechanics of stacking levels that is used for multiclassing, only that a monster's HD work like a class in this regard. It's a simple method, but it has its own shortcomings. CR calculation is not always reliable in 3e, and (as you mention yourself) adding wizard levels to a monster can have a very different effect than adding fighter levels, especially if the monster already starts with many HD. It [I]might[/I] actually work better in 5e thanks to bounded accuracy but I'm not sure. Perhaps the problem has no ultimate solution, considering that we would like all of the following: - player character classes with plenty of "stuff" per level, so that every time you level up there's something crunchy to gain - simple monsters, not too much "stuff", so that the DM doesn't go nuts when running them or designing her own - monsters with classes, so that the DM can easily create monster societies in her campaign (or even if just wanting a small group of monsters with different roles for a single fight) Generally speaking, I think one approach that might work better, is a [I]gestalt[/I] approach, or a method that [I]replaces [/I]some of HD with class levels. Such is never going to be as simple as stacking levels, but in this case I'd give up simplicity for reliability (i.e. reliably calculating level/XP) and flexibility. [/QUOTE]
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