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<blockquote data-quote="Scott Christian" data-source="post: 8520282" data-attributes="member: 6901101"><p>Bravo. I applaud the attempt. In my experience, very few DMs do this.</p><p></p><p>This is where it gets very challenging in D&D. For example, a player that flies and has a bow exploring a giant spider filled forest. They can just fly around picking spiders off from above. Sure you could "lay traps" where the spider goes low, and then there are some close near the treetops. But that is the exact opposite of organic. You could have other things go out to get them, like giant bees or a griffon, but again, that is the opposite of organic. That is why there are so many debates about certain abilities like fly. Because to run the fine line of "organic," "verisimilitude," and "D&D style fantasy" is extremely difficult.</p><p></p><p>Just from my experience (and many failures), you are right to think communication is the lynchpin. </p><p></p><p>Players need to be aware of the level. And you want to tell them "organically." At least that is the best way to I've found. For example, when the mayor says, "We had a high priest and the paladin, both known for slaying an actual dragon and surviving a purple worm attack go in there, and they came out nearly dead." Another way to broach the subject is to have players roll a nature check or something similar. Then there are books they can find that explicitely describe the creature and how powerful it is. Perhaps these books compare the creature's power to the number of soldiers it can kill; ie "The beholder is often a 100-soldier creature, an even then..." Then there are seers and other fortune people/devices that might leave clues about what lies ahead.</p><p></p><p>Relying on the exploration pillar in D&D is some of the best moments I've experienced, both as a DM and player. I find organic things much easier to pull me in as a player. And from a design standpoint, for the last 15 years all I think about is organic. Again, D&D is a hard needle to thread for exploration. First, as a DM, you need to rely on your players to trust you that they can get that medallion without dying. That is not easy to do. Second, you need to have the right group of players. You can't have a Leroy Jenkins, which is a common trope. Third, from my experience, it helps to show the players the first few times. Maybe throw in some wise sage that says, you can use this scroll of heat metal to get the mummy to dop it, then grab it, and get the hell out of there!" Fourth, it pays to write the setting ahead of time - and make it extremely clear. For example: "This passage is thin making you squeeze through granite rock. There is definitely no way a large creature could fit through here." And that leads to number five, you need to set the dungeon or area up, so it makes sense ecologically (my bread and butter) as well as logically. That all takes planning.</p><p></p><p>Good luck!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scott Christian, post: 8520282, member: 6901101"] Bravo. I applaud the attempt. In my experience, very few DMs do this. This is where it gets very challenging in D&D. For example, a player that flies and has a bow exploring a giant spider filled forest. They can just fly around picking spiders off from above. Sure you could "lay traps" where the spider goes low, and then there are some close near the treetops. But that is the exact opposite of organic. You could have other things go out to get them, like giant bees or a griffon, but again, that is the opposite of organic. That is why there are so many debates about certain abilities like fly. Because to run the fine line of "organic," "verisimilitude," and "D&D style fantasy" is extremely difficult. Just from my experience (and many failures), you are right to think communication is the lynchpin. Players need to be aware of the level. And you want to tell them "organically." At least that is the best way to I've found. For example, when the mayor says, "We had a high priest and the paladin, both known for slaying an actual dragon and surviving a purple worm attack go in there, and they came out nearly dead." Another way to broach the subject is to have players roll a nature check or something similar. Then there are books they can find that explicitely describe the creature and how powerful it is. Perhaps these books compare the creature's power to the number of soldiers it can kill; ie "The beholder is often a 100-soldier creature, an even then..." Then there are seers and other fortune people/devices that might leave clues about what lies ahead. Relying on the exploration pillar in D&D is some of the best moments I've experienced, both as a DM and player. I find organic things much easier to pull me in as a player. And from a design standpoint, for the last 15 years all I think about is organic. Again, D&D is a hard needle to thread for exploration. First, as a DM, you need to rely on your players to trust you that they can get that medallion without dying. That is not easy to do. Second, you need to have the right group of players. You can't have a Leroy Jenkins, which is a common trope. Third, from my experience, it helps to show the players the first few times. Maybe throw in some wise sage that says, you can use this scroll of heat metal to get the mummy to dop it, then grab it, and get the hell out of there!" Fourth, it pays to write the setting ahead of time - and make it extremely clear. For example: "This passage is thin making you squeeze through granite rock. There is definitely no way a large creature could fit through here." And that leads to number five, you need to set the dungeon or area up, so it makes sense ecologically (my bread and butter) as well as logically. That all takes planning. Good luck! [/QUOTE]
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