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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 5839041" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>Too true. Don't play an introverted character - it's hard to demonstate you're role playing such a character. And make sure your character'spersonality is one the DM likes to see in play. I've seen at least one DM who felt that the "best" role playing was taking actions that impeded the rest of the group, so make a character whose goals conflict with the party to max out xp.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I'm torn. It is poor role playing for an introverted character to become a social butterfly because tonight's session involves chatting people up at the bar. But I expect the player to be engaged. If his nose is in the whatever, he's really an absent player. On the other hand (I think that's three hands so far), why is this player in the game if it doesn't interest them? Maybe they should stay home and putz on the laptop instead of dragging the game down. And, if that player's enjoyment comes from rolling dice when prompted, and the goal is to reward what players find fun, why is this player's fun wrongbad? Isn't this better than badgering the other players, who are enjoying NPC interaction, to "hurry up and get to the dungeon and the fighting"? Phone Guy isn't impeding anyone else's fun.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>So now the rogue wants to be at the front, checking every 10 feet for traps. The game drags to a miserable crawl. Meanwhile, the fighter wants to rush ahead (so he gets xp for all those traps) and the cleric's OK with that since he gets xp for healing up the fighter, so the rogue remains 1st level forever.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>"Sometimes gets xp" seems to have a lot of room for favortism. Is missing a game for the kid's soccer game, or so the wife can visit her sister, or because of work demands more or less meritorious than car failure or illness?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>By the same token, isn't it also a combat, trapfinding, spellcasting and interaction game? Those things are also going to happen, right? As has been noted above, a lot, every xp system shows a bias to a certain playstyle.</p><p> </p><p>Some would hold that "roleplaying" is a detailed description of your actions. Just rolling the dice to hit and damage isn't enough - describe your character's combat style. And rolling diplomacy isn't enough - you have to 'role play' the discussion with the duke. RESULT: Verbose players get more xp.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Certainly valid. Then again, should the player with no background get extra xp for making it so easy for the GM to insert a bit of backstory and bring his character into the action? For me, I like a character whose background isn't so much about history as about personality. What makes this guy tick?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>While I could ask why this would skew progression but your other differentiations don't, I perceive a differentiation here of "out of character gets rerolls; in character gets xp", which is certainly a logical division. Except it's not the character who spends the session posting on Enworld either.</p><p> </p><p>I</p><p> </p><p>Gosh, that seems a lot like requiring a background between levels, rather than as a 1st level character. That said, I like my characters to have some reasoning behind them, rather than "this dip gives me that power which has nice synergy with this feat". But then, that's my game style preference coming into play. </p><p> </p><p>Why should I have to provide a more detailed explanation of the class taken at 5th level than the class taken at 1st level? What caused my cleric to be trained as such, and what order accepted and trained by L1 wizard?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>So your concern was that player behaviour was affected by xp for kills (they focused on killing). Isn't it now focused on treasure-gathering? Would most parties decide it's more important to get this bulky loot to safety than to press onwards and rescue the princess? If they leave that heavy loot behind to carry back an honoured fallen comrade, they lose xp. Greedy characters advance faster, and noble characters advance slower, so we've just changed the focus from bloodthirst to greed.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Can I take treasure in and buy treasure from the dungeon occupants? I get xp for anything new I bring out, right? I'll be back next week to trade again!</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Just like bringing the princess back alive should have been more appropriate than chasing down that random owl bear, right?</p><p> </p><p>For greater certainty, I'm largely playing devil's advocate above. I don't see a "right" or "wrong" system. I think most systems can be gamed in some manner or another, while "you level up when I say you do" can be seen as arbitrary. It depends on the group's playstyle. A narrativist group likely prefers "get levels when story demands" where a competitive gamist group wants fixed rules and individual xp. The best system is the system that most enhances your group's enjoyment of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 5839041, member: 6681948"] Too true. Don't play an introverted character - it's hard to demonstate you're role playing such a character. And make sure your character'spersonality is one the DM likes to see in play. I've seen at least one DM who felt that the "best" role playing was taking actions that impeded the rest of the group, so make a character whose goals conflict with the party to max out xp. I'm torn. It is poor role playing for an introverted character to become a social butterfly because tonight's session involves chatting people up at the bar. But I expect the player to be engaged. If his nose is in the whatever, he's really an absent player. On the other hand (I think that's three hands so far), why is this player in the game if it doesn't interest them? Maybe they should stay home and putz on the laptop instead of dragging the game down. And, if that player's enjoyment comes from rolling dice when prompted, and the goal is to reward what players find fun, why is this player's fun wrongbad? Isn't this better than badgering the other players, who are enjoying NPC interaction, to "hurry up and get to the dungeon and the fighting"? Phone Guy isn't impeding anyone else's fun. So now the rogue wants to be at the front, checking every 10 feet for traps. The game drags to a miserable crawl. Meanwhile, the fighter wants to rush ahead (so he gets xp for all those traps) and the cleric's OK with that since he gets xp for healing up the fighter, so the rogue remains 1st level forever. "Sometimes gets xp" seems to have a lot of room for favortism. Is missing a game for the kid's soccer game, or so the wife can visit her sister, or because of work demands more or less meritorious than car failure or illness? By the same token, isn't it also a combat, trapfinding, spellcasting and interaction game? Those things are also going to happen, right? As has been noted above, a lot, every xp system shows a bias to a certain playstyle. Some would hold that "roleplaying" is a detailed description of your actions. Just rolling the dice to hit and damage isn't enough - describe your character's combat style. And rolling diplomacy isn't enough - you have to 'role play' the discussion with the duke. RESULT: Verbose players get more xp. Certainly valid. Then again, should the player with no background get extra xp for making it so easy for the GM to insert a bit of backstory and bring his character into the action? For me, I like a character whose background isn't so much about history as about personality. What makes this guy tick? While I could ask why this would skew progression but your other differentiations don't, I perceive a differentiation here of "out of character gets rerolls; in character gets xp", which is certainly a logical division. Except it's not the character who spends the session posting on Enworld either. I Gosh, that seems a lot like requiring a background between levels, rather than as a 1st level character. That said, I like my characters to have some reasoning behind them, rather than "this dip gives me that power which has nice synergy with this feat". But then, that's my game style preference coming into play. Why should I have to provide a more detailed explanation of the class taken at 5th level than the class taken at 1st level? What caused my cleric to be trained as such, and what order accepted and trained by L1 wizard? So your concern was that player behaviour was affected by xp for kills (they focused on killing). Isn't it now focused on treasure-gathering? Would most parties decide it's more important to get this bulky loot to safety than to press onwards and rescue the princess? If they leave that heavy loot behind to carry back an honoured fallen comrade, they lose xp. Greedy characters advance faster, and noble characters advance slower, so we've just changed the focus from bloodthirst to greed. Can I take treasure in and buy treasure from the dungeon occupants? I get xp for anything new I bring out, right? I'll be back next week to trade again! Just like bringing the princess back alive should have been more appropriate than chasing down that random owl bear, right? For greater certainty, I'm largely playing devil's advocate above. I don't see a "right" or "wrong" system. I think most systems can be gamed in some manner or another, while "you level up when I say you do" can be seen as arbitrary. It depends on the group's playstyle. A narrativist group likely prefers "get levels when story demands" where a competitive gamist group wants fixed rules and individual xp. The best system is the system that most enhances your group's enjoyment of the game. [/QUOTE]
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