Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Move a (willing?) (able?) ally
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Wachunga" data-source="post: 4424372" data-attributes="member: 71437"><p>Good question! I've wondered this myself. My thoughts below.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That makes sense to me when the ally is immobilized. But in the general case, I feel like this is stepping on the turf of the warlord's Wolf Pack Tactics a bit... It's not as good, of course, but then Bull Rush also allows you to shift, which WPT does not.</p><p></p><p>I think the thing that bothers me most about this approach is the Fortitude defense, though. According to p. 274, defenses are "your ability to avoid injury and other ill effects". Unless the push is against the ally's will, I don't think using Fortitude is appropriate. See below.</p><p></p><p>Well, they sort of include combat for helpless allies. As pointed out earlier, helpless allies are treated as objects. On page 289, "Pick up an item" is a minor action to "pick up an object in your space or in an unoccupied square within reach". (It could be argued that the ally's square isn't really occupied if they're helpless, since you can end your turn there etc.) This involves both hands, though, so you'd have to sheathe or drop weapons. And I would say it involves more than a minor action, considering the size of the "object".</p><p></p><p>Anway, pushing is another story.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mostly like this, but again there's the Fortitude issue. And grabbing someone to push them seems a bit redundant...</p><p></p><p>I think the best approach using RAW would be to make a strength check for pushing (willing) allies, as suggested on p. 222: "Your DM can also ask you to make a Strength check to push ... something heavy in a stressful situation, such as in the middle of combat". So a DC (as in DMG, p. 42) replaces Fortitude. Weight shouldn't really be an issue, since no PC should be more than Strength x 50 (e.g., Strength 8 x 50 = 400 lbs), though fully-geared Dragonborn might be an exception. The DC could be higher in such cases.</p><p></p><p>I haven't seen any guidelines about ability checks and type of actions, but a standard action would be balanced and logical.</p><p></p><p>What do you think?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wachunga, post: 4424372, member: 71437"] Good question! I've wondered this myself. My thoughts below. That makes sense to me when the ally is immobilized. But in the general case, I feel like this is stepping on the turf of the warlord's Wolf Pack Tactics a bit... It's not as good, of course, but then Bull Rush also allows you to shift, which WPT does not. I think the thing that bothers me most about this approach is the Fortitude defense, though. According to p. 274, defenses are "your ability to avoid injury and other ill effects". Unless the push is against the ally's will, I don't think using Fortitude is appropriate. See below. Well, they sort of include combat for helpless allies. As pointed out earlier, helpless allies are treated as objects. On page 289, "Pick up an item" is a minor action to "pick up an object in your space or in an unoccupied square within reach". (It could be argued that the ally's square isn't really occupied if they're helpless, since you can end your turn there etc.) This involves both hands, though, so you'd have to sheathe or drop weapons. And I would say it involves more than a minor action, considering the size of the "object". Anway, pushing is another story. I mostly like this, but again there's the Fortitude issue. And grabbing someone to push them seems a bit redundant... I think the best approach using RAW would be to make a strength check for pushing (willing) allies, as suggested on p. 222: "Your DM can also ask you to make a Strength check to push ... something heavy in a stressful situation, such as in the middle of combat". So a DC (as in DMG, p. 42) replaces Fortitude. Weight shouldn't really be an issue, since no PC should be more than Strength x 50 (e.g., Strength 8 x 50 = 400 lbs), though fully-geared Dragonborn might be an exception. The DC could be higher in such cases. I haven't seen any guidelines about ability checks and type of actions, but a standard action would be balanced and logical. What do you think? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Move a (willing?) (able?) ally
Top