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My Experiment with 5e - No Classes with Cantrips
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 7449124" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>Understood. I was just pointing out the cost of taking that approach.Not really - a 25' chasm is a 25' chasm. I know you're being tongue in cheek, but I wasn't - mundane problems can easily become repetitive. One of my points was that in a typical campaign there is an evolution. I think of it in three tiers, but it is actually more of a spectrum going from magic being of no assistance in solving a problem to magic trivializing that same problem at higher levels. Different solutions become available that reduce the challenge over time, To this I strongly disagree. Mundane challenges become trivial, but you escalate the challenges as the party capability escalates. I can run a trap dungeon for 20th level PCs with no monsters that will be fun for the players, even if they are the ones playing a rogue or fighter.</p></blockquote><p>But, by the same token, in a full caster party, that conversation about how to cross the Silt Sea becomes, "I cast this and that spell, we ignore the major elements of the setting, what happens when we get there" and becomes that in very short order.[/quote]It shouldn't. D&D is an RPG - a role playing game. PCs are characters in a story. At times you want to advance that story a few days without covering what takes place in the middle - but I rarely do that when there is an opportunity for something interest. I'm not a huge fan of Dark Sun, but continuing to use it as an example - a short trip across the silt sea at low levels might require the PCs to stretch their survival skills. At medium levels they may have capabilities (psionic, elemental priest, preserver) that allow them to trivialize the survival risks by making water and shelter. However, you can throw other threats at them that are an escalation - a silt storm, perhaps. Then they get strong enough to control the weather... at which time you might force them not to just sail the silt, but instead venture down into it to find a ruined city buried by the silt. And that's fine. I was just saying there is a cost to these limitations. </p><p></p><p>However, I would still like a specific example of how one might differentiate adventures for the 1st level fighter with a 16 Strength and a 13th level +5 Athletics with 20 Strength fighter/rogue with a +15 Athletics. Beyond fighting different monsters, what is different about the challenges they face that escalates the story. pemerton was the one that said there could be escalation, but I'd like to hear your thoughts, too. Or anyone else. How is the venture into the kobold caves different than the demon temple venture 12 levels higher when the monsters are not on the table?</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 7449124, member: 2629"] Understood. I was just pointing out the cost of taking that approach.Not really - a 25' chasm is a 25' chasm. I know you're being tongue in cheek, but I wasn't - mundane problems can easily become repetitive. One of my points was that in a typical campaign there is an evolution. I think of it in three tiers, but it is actually more of a spectrum going from magic being of no assistance in solving a problem to magic trivializing that same problem at higher levels. Different solutions become available that reduce the challenge over time, To this I strongly disagree. Mundane challenges become trivial, but you escalate the challenges as the party capability escalates. I can run a trap dungeon for 20th level PCs with no monsters that will be fun for the players, even if they are the ones playing a rogue or fighter.[/quote]But, by the same token, in a full caster party, that conversation about how to cross the Silt Sea becomes, "I cast this and that spell, we ignore the major elements of the setting, what happens when we get there" and becomes that in very short order.[/quote]It shouldn't. D&D is an RPG - a role playing game. PCs are characters in a story. At times you want to advance that story a few days without covering what takes place in the middle - but I rarely do that when there is an opportunity for something interest. I'm not a huge fan of Dark Sun, but continuing to use it as an example - a short trip across the silt sea at low levels might require the PCs to stretch their survival skills. At medium levels they may have capabilities (psionic, elemental priest, preserver) that allow them to trivialize the survival risks by making water and shelter. However, you can throw other threats at them that are an escalation - a silt storm, perhaps. Then they get strong enough to control the weather... at which time you might force them not to just sail the silt, but instead venture down into it to find a ruined city buried by the silt. And that's fine. I was just saying there is a cost to these limitations. However, I would still like a specific example of how one might differentiate adventures for the 1st level fighter with a 16 Strength and a 13th level +5 Athletics with 20 Strength fighter/rogue with a +15 Athletics. Beyond fighting different monsters, what is different about the challenges they face that escalates the story. pemerton was the one that said there could be escalation, but I'd like to hear your thoughts, too. Or anyone else. How is the venture into the kobold caves different than the demon temple venture 12 levels higher when the monsters are not on the table? [/QUOTE]
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