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My first Homebrew attempt to fix the elven dex fighter/rapier and bow all too frequent build in my campaign: I need some advice!
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7554327" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>If the result of this is nobody choosing the dex rapier combo and the optimizes choosing another combo cuz it's the new "best" then will you also be changing the rules again to stop that combo? </p><p></p><p>In my experience, players who make choices for optimization only reasons tend to have no problem finding another "best" whenever rules change. They never come down on " hey these are perfectly balanced, I can choose either of them." </p><p></p><p>In my experience with minmaxers, tweaking the rules to "prevent them" from all taking this one "best thing" is effectively banning it, cuz once you get it to second best, its abandoned completely- so it's easier to just ban rapier and longbow if that's your scapegoat.</p><p></p><p>As such, rules changes to specifically prevent them from settling on a "best combo" fail to do anything other than move the "best" to another combo.</p><p></p><p>So, if after your rules change your minmaxer pair wind up both with great sword, strength GWM thumpers, are you gonna house rule that?</p><p></p><p>If you want to make them not take whatever combo they want, you need rules to make that not happen.</p><p>.</p><p>"Only one party member can use a given weapon" seems more on target.</p><p>But you could also target it more directly by saying "only 1 character can have any given ability score" so you wont end up with too many at say high dex ranges.</p><p></p><p>Imo the answer to getting a diverse spread of capabilities valued by and chosen by the groups is in the challenges they meet. If you show them ranged bow fire is the key over and over, you will see them migrate towards dex builds. If you show them the heavy hitting superior damage of head to head melee is, you will see that. If you show them a lot more diverse and that each is needed, you will see the diversity you apparently need.</p><p></p><p>Balance (and the imagined diversity you hope springs from it) is not gonna spring out of requiring a feat to get back to what RAW is now. Its gonna come outta them being in cases where everybody playing that one song isnt gonna cut it and where all the instruments in the orchestra are needed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7554327, member: 6919838"] If the result of this is nobody choosing the dex rapier combo and the optimizes choosing another combo cuz it's the new "best" then will you also be changing the rules again to stop that combo? In my experience, players who make choices for optimization only reasons tend to have no problem finding another "best" whenever rules change. They never come down on " hey these are perfectly balanced, I can choose either of them." In my experience with minmaxers, tweaking the rules to "prevent them" from all taking this one "best thing" is effectively banning it, cuz once you get it to second best, its abandoned completely- so it's easier to just ban rapier and longbow if that's your scapegoat. As such, rules changes to specifically prevent them from settling on a "best combo" fail to do anything other than move the "best" to another combo. So, if after your rules change your minmaxer pair wind up both with great sword, strength GWM thumpers, are you gonna house rule that? If you want to make them not take whatever combo they want, you need rules to make that not happen. . "Only one party member can use a given weapon" seems more on target. But you could also target it more directly by saying "only 1 character can have any given ability score" so you wont end up with too many at say high dex ranges. Imo the answer to getting a diverse spread of capabilities valued by and chosen by the groups is in the challenges they meet. If you show them ranged bow fire is the key over and over, you will see them migrate towards dex builds. If you show them the heavy hitting superior damage of head to head melee is, you will see that. If you show them a lot more diverse and that each is needed, you will see the diversity you apparently need. Balance (and the imagined diversity you hope springs from it) is not gonna spring out of requiring a feat to get back to what RAW is now. Its gonna come outta them being in cases where everybody playing that one song isnt gonna cut it and where all the instruments in the orchestra are needed. [/QUOTE]
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My first Homebrew attempt to fix the elven dex fighter/rapier and bow all too frequent build in my campaign: I need some advice!
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