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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8870066" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>I suppose for me I've never had problems with contemplating what actions to take with dudes because I don't necessarily optimize all actions for mooks and just try to be characterful. With 5E, I was like actively adding 2-4 more actions for mooks to do to give them more flavor. Like, my Gnolls would use the bite action and had a special grapple with it to reflect their hyena nature, plus shield bashing and other stuff I added in.</p><p></p><p>What I'm getting at is that I'm a freak.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://img.wattpad.com/03ef0610095f66bc62be3c7a04587a40cae25622/68747470733a2f2f36382e6d656469612e74756d626c722e636f6d2f74756d626c725f6d32723439686130455931716334777a636f315f3530302e676966?s=fit&h=360&w=360&q=80" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For me, actions aren't the problem. Conditions <em>can</em> be a problem, but VTTs are better at marking that consistently compared to doing it on a tabletop grid (I could probably use the little rubber bands I see people using, but for whatever reason I just can't abide them. I don't know why, I'm a weirdo, it's-me-not-you.) or especially theatre of the mind.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I suppose that's one of those load-processing things that I'm alright at. Again, I can probably concede that this system was built for me like it was a hole in a Junji Ito story.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, that's not <em>exactly</em> true. So like, if you read <em>Avoid Notice</em>, it kind of hints that you are allowed to take a second activity, you are just moving at half speed when you do it. Why else mention that you can move full speed if you have <em>Swift Sneak, </em>but you don't get a second exploration activity, and that you get one if you have <em>Legendary Sneak</em> while moving at full speed? It's just kind of poorly written, but I don't think that interpretation is invalid. If you wanted to do something else, you basically stack the penalties on top of one-another. </p><p></p><p>But again, this stuff comes off as being written to limit Society players. I've had characters make up exploration activities (I think one was <em>Sentry</em>, which was patrolling an area looking for people as a focused version of <em>Search</em>).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not really a great feat, but also I don't really see it as a dealbreaker. Like, it's an action-economy saver in combat. If you want to be a dude who is the breacher of the party, okay? Otherwise don't take the feat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>HULK DOES NOT USE WORD GAMES, HULK SMASH!</p><p></p><p>Honestly I was in the same place as you until one of my players articulated the other side of the argument: you can't intimidate because you're <em>raging</em>, and thus you should always be incentivized to charging and messing dudes up because you're currently a freight train of violence coming off the tracks. Stopping to try and soften up an enemy's morale? That's too many brain cells. You know what also softens up enemies? <em>This greataxe.</em></p><p></p><p>And I had never thought about it before, but the limitation made a lot more sense as enforced roleplaying, and getting <em>Raging Intimidation</em> is you having the extra braincell to occasionally stop and scream to throw off your enemies... and <em>then </em>destroy them with your greataxe. Yeah, I really kind of turned around on it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's <em>not</em> the feat, though. You can read stuff quickly at a glance, even through a sealed envelope; the ability to do so if the text is in a mirror or upside-down feels more like preventing a GM from screwing you by using that as an excuse not to be able to use the skill. Basically if you get a glance at a document or merely handle it, no matter how, you can attempt to Decipher Writing to figure out what it is. And that's a pretty cool feat, to be honest.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, you make exceptions with edge cases present themselves. That happens in all rules. For some of those, you don't even need to really make an exception (Just take two minutes instead of one for Making an Impression ¯\<em>(ツ)</em>/¯ ). I'm not saying you're slavishly abiding the rules, but maybe you're just thinking about them too rigidly. What I liked about PF2 was more that it provided structure that gave me an idea of what the system could do, even if I would bounce around within it.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://media.tenor.com/W4-xxWL5XEIAAAAC/guidelines-theyre-like-guidelines.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, it's not handwaving, there are always edge-cases. Sometimes the rules make sense, but there are always situations where they don't. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uh, you really aren't supposed to roll each day. Under Earn Income, you only roll once and you keep that roll for however long you decide to do that task. But Earn Income is kind of something you do when you don't have anything else to do; you could be making contacts, researching spells and topics, and other things. I suppose it depends on your day job, though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, that sort of stuff is why I'm against published adventures normally. At least, in d20 roleplaying. I find other systems and settings to generally be better for that stuff (Oh <strong><em>man</em></strong>, some of the <em>Delta Green </em>prewritten scenarios are <strong><em>amazing</em></strong>).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8870066, member: 6778210"] I suppose for me I've never had problems with contemplating what actions to take with dudes because I don't necessarily optimize all actions for mooks and just try to be characterful. With 5E, I was like actively adding 2-4 more actions for mooks to do to give them more flavor. Like, my Gnolls would use the bite action and had a special grapple with it to reflect their hyena nature, plus shield bashing and other stuff I added in. What I'm getting at is that I'm a freak. [IMG]https://img.wattpad.com/03ef0610095f66bc62be3c7a04587a40cae25622/68747470733a2f2f36382e6d656469612e74756d626c722e636f6d2f74756d626c725f6d32723439686130455931716334777a636f315f3530302e676966?s=fit&h=360&w=360&q=80[/IMG] For me, actions aren't the problem. Conditions [I]can[/I] be a problem, but VTTs are better at marking that consistently compared to doing it on a tabletop grid (I could probably use the little rubber bands I see people using, but for whatever reason I just can't abide them. I don't know why, I'm a weirdo, it's-me-not-you.) or especially theatre of the mind. I suppose that's one of those load-processing things that I'm alright at. Again, I can probably concede that this system was built for me like it was a hole in a Junji Ito story. I mean, that's not [I]exactly[/I] true. So like, if you read [I]Avoid Notice[/I], it kind of hints that you are allowed to take a second activity, you are just moving at half speed when you do it. Why else mention that you can move full speed if you have [I]Swift Sneak, [/I]but you don't get a second exploration activity, and that you get one if you have [I]Legendary Sneak[/I] while moving at full speed? It's just kind of poorly written, but I don't think that interpretation is invalid. If you wanted to do something else, you basically stack the penalties on top of one-another. But again, this stuff comes off as being written to limit Society players. I've had characters make up exploration activities (I think one was [I]Sentry[/I], which was patrolling an area looking for people as a focused version of [I]Search[/I]). That's not really a great feat, but also I don't really see it as a dealbreaker. Like, it's an action-economy saver in combat. If you want to be a dude who is the breacher of the party, okay? Otherwise don't take the feat. HULK DOES NOT USE WORD GAMES, HULK SMASH! Honestly I was in the same place as you until one of my players articulated the other side of the argument: you can't intimidate because you're [I]raging[/I], and thus you should always be incentivized to charging and messing dudes up because you're currently a freight train of violence coming off the tracks. Stopping to try and soften up an enemy's morale? That's too many brain cells. You know what also softens up enemies? [I]This greataxe.[/I] And I had never thought about it before, but the limitation made a lot more sense as enforced roleplaying, and getting [I]Raging Intimidation[/I] is you having the extra braincell to occasionally stop and scream to throw off your enemies... and [I]then [/I]destroy them with your greataxe. Yeah, I really kind of turned around on it. :p That's [I]not[/I] the feat, though. You can read stuff quickly at a glance, even through a sealed envelope; the ability to do so if the text is in a mirror or upside-down feels more like preventing a GM from screwing you by using that as an excuse not to be able to use the skill. Basically if you get a glance at a document or merely handle it, no matter how, you can attempt to Decipher Writing to figure out what it is. And that's a pretty cool feat, to be honest. I mean, you make exceptions with edge cases present themselves. That happens in all rules. For some of those, you don't even need to really make an exception (Just take two minutes instead of one for Making an Impression ¯\[I](ツ)[/I]/¯ ). I'm not saying you're slavishly abiding the rules, but maybe you're just thinking about them too rigidly. What I liked about PF2 was more that it provided structure that gave me an idea of what the system could do, even if I would bounce around within it. [IMG]https://media.tenor.com/W4-xxWL5XEIAAAAC/guidelines-theyre-like-guidelines.gif[/IMG] I mean, it's not handwaving, there are always edge-cases. Sometimes the rules make sense, but there are always situations where they don't. Uh, you really aren't supposed to roll each day. Under Earn Income, you only roll once and you keep that roll for however long you decide to do that task. But Earn Income is kind of something you do when you don't have anything else to do; you could be making contacts, researching spells and topics, and other things. I suppose it depends on your day job, though. Yeah, that sort of stuff is why I'm against published adventures normally. At least, in d20 roleplaying. I find other systems and settings to generally be better for that stuff (Oh [B][I]man[/I][/B], some of the [I]Delta Green [/I]prewritten scenarios are [B][I]amazing[/I][/B]). [/QUOTE]
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