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"My Pathfinder Spoiler" Glimpses At Pathfinder 2
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7782465" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>So LFQW does matter to you? Interesting, because my entire argument is that I believe it matters to every PF2 customer that has experienced 5E.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I consider this a bad-faith argument. Who cares about 4th edition? It did a lot of things. None of them matter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry this is not relevant to the issue discussed. LFQW is fixed by 5E. Comprehensively and fundamentally. Nothing about components change this. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Please don't call other people's arguments "deluded". Especially when its just a strawman - I have never said 5E's specific approach is the One True Way or that Paizo can't achieve this by other means. </p><p></p><p>I'm just saying they better achieve it somehow, or they're in for a very nasty surprise.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>More nonsense I'm afraid. That Wizards revert back to the bad old days is hardly an argument to let them keep their stratospheric tier.</p><p></p><p>Your other argument, well, I will leave it without comment. It's embarrassing.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Let me cut you short there, since I'm sure you're not really trying to argue PF2 won't have very powerful spells... </p><p></p><p>(Who cares a specific first level spell is less powerful. I'm absolutely convinced it will be easy to find PF2 spells that are more powerful than their 5E couterparts. This tells us nothing.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>If the action economy truly limits each caster to three spells (buff and debuff spells obvs), and then he can't do anything except stand around and maintain those three spells, then you're onto something.</p><p></p><p>Somehow I doubt Paizo will have the drive and purpose to go all the way. And as I've just argued, even if you stop just a little bit short, your efforts will be chewed up by minmaxers in an instant.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But a bigger issue is this.</p><p></p><p>In all the time I've argued for Paizo to take LFQW seriously (=treat it like a problem that absolutely must be fixed) I have yet to hear even a single poster make the central argument:</p><p></p><p><strong>None of you have said Paizo should keep LFQW.</strong></p><p></p><p>Not even once have anyone lept to the defense of LFQW. To me, that's very telling.</p><p></p><p>WHat it tells me is that we live in a post-5E world, and that Paizo will be ridiculed if their PF2 game only pays lip service to the notion of curbing LFQW. </p><p></p><p>The only way to prevent LFQW is to make it <em>impossible</em> for Wizards to do the whole buffing game, and to force them to make hard choices every single step of the way. I'm sure that's a hard sell to the core PF1 aficionados, but that is likely because they haven't experienced 5E. They can't imagine D&D without LFQW.</p><p></p><p>Let us hope against hope that Paizo can imagine Pathfinder 2 without LFQW. Mark my words.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7782465, member: 12731"] So LFQW does matter to you? Interesting, because my entire argument is that I believe it matters to every PF2 customer that has experienced 5E. I consider this a bad-faith argument. Who cares about 4th edition? It did a lot of things. None of them matter. Sorry this is not relevant to the issue discussed. LFQW is fixed by 5E. Comprehensively and fundamentally. Nothing about components change this. Please don't call other people's arguments "deluded". Especially when its just a strawman - I have never said 5E's specific approach is the One True Way or that Paizo can't achieve this by other means. I'm just saying they better achieve it somehow, or they're in for a very nasty surprise. More nonsense I'm afraid. That Wizards revert back to the bad old days is hardly an argument to let them keep their stratospheric tier. Your other argument, well, I will leave it without comment. It's embarrassing. Let me cut you short there, since I'm sure you're not really trying to argue PF2 won't have very powerful spells... (Who cares a specific first level spell is less powerful. I'm absolutely convinced it will be easy to find PF2 spells that are more powerful than their 5E couterparts. This tells us nothing.) If the action economy truly limits each caster to three spells (buff and debuff spells obvs), and then he can't do anything except stand around and maintain those three spells, then you're onto something. Somehow I doubt Paizo will have the drive and purpose to go all the way. And as I've just argued, even if you stop just a little bit short, your efforts will be chewed up by minmaxers in an instant. But a bigger issue is this. In all the time I've argued for Paizo to take LFQW seriously (=treat it like a problem that absolutely must be fixed) I have yet to hear even a single poster make the central argument: [B]None of you have said Paizo should keep LFQW.[/B] Not even once have anyone lept to the defense of LFQW. To me, that's very telling. WHat it tells me is that we live in a post-5E world, and that Paizo will be ridiculed if their PF2 game only pays lip service to the notion of curbing LFQW. The only way to prevent LFQW is to make it [I]impossible[/I] for Wizards to do the whole buffing game, and to force them to make hard choices every single step of the way. I'm sure that's a hard sell to the core PF1 aficionados, but that is likely because they haven't experienced 5E. They can't imagine D&D without LFQW. Let us hope against hope that Paizo can imagine Pathfinder 2 without LFQW. Mark my words. [/QUOTE]
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