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My powergamer players wants to be a bard.
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<blockquote data-quote="drjones" data-source="post: 6394828" data-attributes="member: 62944"><p>To the OP: My powergame-iest player wanted to do a Half Elf lore bard also. So far it has been powerful, but mostly as a buffer for the fighter. The only issue I ran into was at level 3 with Cutting Words he then wanted to be told the value of every roll the I made before resolution so he could then decide if he wanted to interrupt it. Which is in line with a generous interpretation of the the power but not how I wanted to run a game because it slows things way down.</p><p></p><p>An OP character is super easy for a DM to fix: generate harder encounters and focus fire on the OP guy. Min/Maxing in D&D is not a moral failing, it's just a waste of time. This isn't a CRPG that can be broken, the ref is right there and can adjust the difficulty on the fly if they feel like it.</p><p></p><p>But a character with a tedious power that causes trouble for other players at the table by slowing the game down or overshadowing what they can do completely is a genuine concern because it damages the real heart of the game: the comradery of the players at the table. Without that, you are just sitting alone in the dark being amazed at how big the numbers on your character sheet are.</p><p></p><p>One unrelated problem I ran into was the really tactical min/max players are chafing against the Theater of the Mind play. They feel that if they were using a grid and minis then they would place every attack perfectly and optimize every tactical decision so things like 'your sleep can hit half the kobolds or can hit all of them but will also possibly hit your allies in mele' is somehow cheating them. Our DMs and the other players love it though we get through so much more game and many of the tactical decisions are just time wasters that have no effect on outcomes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="drjones, post: 6394828, member: 62944"] To the OP: My powergame-iest player wanted to do a Half Elf lore bard also. So far it has been powerful, but mostly as a buffer for the fighter. The only issue I ran into was at level 3 with Cutting Words he then wanted to be told the value of every roll the I made before resolution so he could then decide if he wanted to interrupt it. Which is in line with a generous interpretation of the the power but not how I wanted to run a game because it slows things way down. An OP character is super easy for a DM to fix: generate harder encounters and focus fire on the OP guy. Min/Maxing in D&D is not a moral failing, it's just a waste of time. This isn't a CRPG that can be broken, the ref is right there and can adjust the difficulty on the fly if they feel like it. But a character with a tedious power that causes trouble for other players at the table by slowing the game down or overshadowing what they can do completely is a genuine concern because it damages the real heart of the game: the comradery of the players at the table. Without that, you are just sitting alone in the dark being amazed at how big the numbers on your character sheet are. One unrelated problem I ran into was the really tactical min/max players are chafing against the Theater of the Mind play. They feel that if they were using a grid and minis then they would place every attack perfectly and optimize every tactical decision so things like 'your sleep can hit half the kobolds or can hit all of them but will also possibly hit your allies in mele' is somehow cheating them. Our DMs and the other players love it though we get through so much more game and many of the tactical decisions are just time wasters that have no effect on outcomes. [/QUOTE]
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