Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
My Quick and Dirty Tasha Read
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8139475" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>The problem with that Rogue example is fairly obvious. They dodge, then attack with their bonus action because they made an attack. But they did not make an attack, they dodged. </p><p></p><p>The only reason the Bladesinger can replace an attack with a cantrip is in the context of making two attacks, because of the known problem with two attacks being better than a blade cantrip. It is not mean to allow you to cast a spell as a hasted action, which is what you are doing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Did you just ignore the parts I bolded for the Bladesinger? Because they are what matters for that section. I'll show you again.</p><p></p><p>"You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. <strong><u>Moreover,</u></strong> you can cast one of your cantrips <strong><u>in place of one of those attacks.</u></strong>"</p><p></p><p>Morever -> As in as an additional part of this feature</p><p></p><p>in place of on of those attacks -> Specifically referencing making two attacks with the Extra Attack feature, as laid out in the first sentence. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This does not allow you to replace any melee weapon attack with a cantrip. If it did, you could replace your bonus action Attack Action with a cantrip. Because that is also an Attack, just as a bonus action and with special rules. After all, you can Divine Smite or Stunning Strike a Bonus Action Attack, so then this would work, right?</p><p></p><p>Or, here's another thing. You can Divine Smite on an Attack of Opportunity, can you cast Booming Blade as the same? No, because then you would be getting the benefits of War Caster for free, and this doesn't allow for that. </p><p></p><p>This is what you are missing. You are reading the Bladesingers ability in a way that allows them to replace any attack they make with a cantrip. That is not what the ability does. It allows them to replace a single weapon attack they make with their Extra Attack feature with a Cantrip, not any weapon attack they make under any circumstance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, here is the problem though, you are saying that the Attack Action is different than an Attack Bonus Action and an Attack Reaction, but that is not how the game works. </p><p></p><p>If a Monk uses Patient Defense, they take the Dodge Action, but they do so as a bonus action. If they are a dwarf and they have Dwarven Fortitude they get to roll a Hit Dice and heal. That feat says "when you take the Dodge Action" and you did, you just did so as a bonus action. </p><p></p><p>Because the action "dodge" is the same action whether you do it as an Action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction. </p><p></p><p>Let us say there is a theoritical item that gives someone +2 when you use the Help Action to aid them. If it was on a Mastermind Rogue who used their special ability to use Help as a Bonus Action, would the creature get the +2? Or would you say they took the Bonus Action Help, and therefore it wouldn't qualify because it needs to be the Action Help and those are two different things? </p><p></p><p>I certainly don't think so. </p><p></p><p>So, if you can replace any attack of a Bladesinger with a Cantrip, then you could make bonus action cantrips and reaction cantrips. But you can't, because the ability is specifically meant to be used with their Extra attack feature. Nothing else. Unlike abilities like Divine Smite, which work for any attack you make, regardless of how you made them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Green Flame Blade is casting a spell. It is literally the "Cast a Spell" action. Just because you make a melee weapon attack as part of the spell does not make it an Attack Action.</p><p></p><p>We can pretty much prove it too. If you are counterspelled, your action fails. You don't still get to make a melee weapon attack despite being counterspelled, because Counter Spell cancels the entire text of the spell, including the part about making an attack roll, so you get to do nothing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8139475, member: 6801228"] The problem with that Rogue example is fairly obvious. They dodge, then attack with their bonus action because they made an attack. But they did not make an attack, they dodged. The only reason the Bladesinger can replace an attack with a cantrip is in the context of making two attacks, because of the known problem with two attacks being better than a blade cantrip. It is not mean to allow you to cast a spell as a hasted action, which is what you are doing. Did you just ignore the parts I bolded for the Bladesinger? Because they are what matters for that section. I'll show you again. "You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. [B][U]Moreover,[/U][/B] you can cast one of your cantrips [B][U]in place of one of those attacks.[/U][/B]" Morever -> As in as an additional part of this feature in place of on of those attacks -> Specifically referencing making two attacks with the Extra Attack feature, as laid out in the first sentence. This does not allow you to replace any melee weapon attack with a cantrip. If it did, you could replace your bonus action Attack Action with a cantrip. Because that is also an Attack, just as a bonus action and with special rules. After all, you can Divine Smite or Stunning Strike a Bonus Action Attack, so then this would work, right? Or, here's another thing. You can Divine Smite on an Attack of Opportunity, can you cast Booming Blade as the same? No, because then you would be getting the benefits of War Caster for free, and this doesn't allow for that. This is what you are missing. You are reading the Bladesingers ability in a way that allows them to replace any attack they make with a cantrip. That is not what the ability does. It allows them to replace a single weapon attack they make with their Extra Attack feature with a Cantrip, not any weapon attack they make under any circumstance. See, here is the problem though, you are saying that the Attack Action is different than an Attack Bonus Action and an Attack Reaction, but that is not how the game works. If a Monk uses Patient Defense, they take the Dodge Action, but they do so as a bonus action. If they are a dwarf and they have Dwarven Fortitude they get to roll a Hit Dice and heal. That feat says "when you take the Dodge Action" and you did, you just did so as a bonus action. Because the action "dodge" is the same action whether you do it as an Action, a Bonus Action, or a Reaction. Let us say there is a theoritical item that gives someone +2 when you use the Help Action to aid them. If it was on a Mastermind Rogue who used their special ability to use Help as a Bonus Action, would the creature get the +2? Or would you say they took the Bonus Action Help, and therefore it wouldn't qualify because it needs to be the Action Help and those are two different things? I certainly don't think so. So, if you can replace any attack of a Bladesinger with a Cantrip, then you could make bonus action cantrips and reaction cantrips. But you can't, because the ability is specifically meant to be used with their Extra attack feature. Nothing else. Unlike abilities like Divine Smite, which work for any attack you make, regardless of how you made them. Green Flame Blade is casting a spell. It is literally the "Cast a Spell" action. Just because you make a melee weapon attack as part of the spell does not make it an Attack Action. We can pretty much prove it too. If you are counterspelled, your action fails. You don't still get to make a melee weapon attack despite being counterspelled, because Counter Spell cancels the entire text of the spell, including the part about making an attack roll, so you get to do nothing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
My Quick and Dirty Tasha Read
Top