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General Tabletop Discussion
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My thoughts of Roles - from Races and Classes
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<blockquote data-quote="Scribble" data-source="post: 3948638" data-attributes="member: 23977"><p>And the "leader" in a tactical game guides the actions of the other players. (players being PCs and DMs.)</p><p></p><p>It's not demeaning in any way. It's simply a way to classify how its powers work. Because the cleric's powers make certain options more or less effective, good tactics say to follow what it creates.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, the game will consist of tactical rules, and role playing options, story, and fluff. All of these elements will be put together in a way that is hopefully easier to work with then previous editions, and smoother in play as well.</p><p></p><p>However, when I say ruleset I do not speak of the game as a whole. I speak of the numbers elements, the tactical rules, and how they are used.</p><p></p><p>If you are playing a halfling, and decide not to use a squeaky high pitched voice, you are not breaking any rules.</p><p></p><p>If you have a BAB of +5 and instead you decide to add +32 you are breaking the rules.</p><p></p><p>In terms of the rules the "leader" is being explained in a tactical way (the second example) in order to help new players understand that in terms of roleplaying, you can give your dude a squeaky voice or a constant wheez, or whatever you want. roleplaying is yours. In terms of tactics, the cleric is best understood in the role of a leader. One who's choices, and powers effect not only what your character can choose to do, but the choices of the others in your group as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are in effect telling them what or how to do something by adding or removing options. It's not a passive thing. It's also seemingly being turned into a more active role then ever before.</p><p></p><p>For instance, say a cleric has a healing "field." if you are an ally, and within 10 feet of the cleric, you can be healed. The cleric is effectively telling his allies to remain within 10 feet.</p><p></p><p>Sure, you can go off on your own, but then you'll pay the consequences. Just like if you decide not to do something the way your boss wants you to at work you'll pay the consequences. (It might work out, but it might also get you fired.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But again, the way the powers work are changing. The Cleric (it seems) will have more powers and abilities to function as the one that works as the hub. </p><p></p><p>And still, all characters can effect the battle. The cleric will most directly effect the tactics involved and which options are best taken.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter barking is a "boss" role. He's giving an order.The cleric casting the buff spell is a "leader" role because it is changing the best tactics for the fighter to use. </p><p></p><p>I'm a fighter facing two opponents. One is an outsider. The other is a Humanoid. Let's say both of them are capable of dealing roughly the same damage each round.</p><p></p><p>The cleric casts protection from outsiders on me.</p><p></p><p>I'm fully able to choose to attack the humanoid, but better tactics would suggest confronting the outsider, who cannot deal any damage to me. In that way I can hopefully dispatch it before confronting the humanoid.</p><p></p><p>That is how the cleric leads. By in a sense choosing the best tactics for you to use. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And they've already stated that all classes will have some elements of the other roles built into them. The cleric is simply built around the idea of the leader role. It's not a demeaning thing. It's just a tactics term.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not misrepresented! As long as the new designers are doing their job and keeping consistent with the cleric having "leader" powers, things will be fine.</p><p></p><p>As for new players, clearly defining how their powers effect the party and opponents (you lead what they do) is the best option. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually I'd very much disagree here.</p><p></p><p>The King functions as the controller. If he moves, the battlefield changes. I can arrange the "perfect" trap for the opponent's king, but as soon as he moved 1 space over, my trap can be foiled, and I have to rethink exactly how to move my pieces in order to once again trap the king.</p><p></p><p>This is similar to the wizard. Say he casts a spll that causes the terrain to become difficult. Suddenly options like charge become less effective, or impossible.</p><p></p><p>The queen, however, when I move her into a space, you either have to find a way to take her out, or back off, because chances are, due to her many movement options she'll be able to get you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd agree with most of the above, however, pawns might be controllers in a way. When they move into a space, they limit the spaces your opponent can go... (maybe they're just a terrain effect... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scribble, post: 3948638, member: 23977"] And the "leader" in a tactical game guides the actions of the other players. (players being PCs and DMs.) It's not demeaning in any way. It's simply a way to classify how its powers work. Because the cleric's powers make certain options more or less effective, good tactics say to follow what it creates. Yes, the game will consist of tactical rules, and role playing options, story, and fluff. All of these elements will be put together in a way that is hopefully easier to work with then previous editions, and smoother in play as well. However, when I say ruleset I do not speak of the game as a whole. I speak of the numbers elements, the tactical rules, and how they are used. If you are playing a halfling, and decide not to use a squeaky high pitched voice, you are not breaking any rules. If you have a BAB of +5 and instead you decide to add +32 you are breaking the rules. In terms of the rules the "leader" is being explained in a tactical way (the second example) in order to help new players understand that in terms of roleplaying, you can give your dude a squeaky voice or a constant wheez, or whatever you want. roleplaying is yours. In terms of tactics, the cleric is best understood in the role of a leader. One who's choices, and powers effect not only what your character can choose to do, but the choices of the others in your group as well. You are in effect telling them what or how to do something by adding or removing options. It's not a passive thing. It's also seemingly being turned into a more active role then ever before. For instance, say a cleric has a healing "field." if you are an ally, and within 10 feet of the cleric, you can be healed. The cleric is effectively telling his allies to remain within 10 feet. Sure, you can go off on your own, but then you'll pay the consequences. Just like if you decide not to do something the way your boss wants you to at work you'll pay the consequences. (It might work out, but it might also get you fired.) But again, the way the powers work are changing. The Cleric (it seems) will have more powers and abilities to function as the one that works as the hub. And still, all characters can effect the battle. The cleric will most directly effect the tactics involved and which options are best taken. The fighter barking is a "boss" role. He's giving an order.The cleric casting the buff spell is a "leader" role because it is changing the best tactics for the fighter to use. I'm a fighter facing two opponents. One is an outsider. The other is a Humanoid. Let's say both of them are capable of dealing roughly the same damage each round. The cleric casts protection from outsiders on me. I'm fully able to choose to attack the humanoid, but better tactics would suggest confronting the outsider, who cannot deal any damage to me. In that way I can hopefully dispatch it before confronting the humanoid. That is how the cleric leads. By in a sense choosing the best tactics for you to use. And they've already stated that all classes will have some elements of the other roles built into them. The cleric is simply built around the idea of the leader role. It's not a demeaning thing. It's just a tactics term. It's not misrepresented! As long as the new designers are doing their job and keeping consistent with the cleric having "leader" powers, things will be fine. As for new players, clearly defining how their powers effect the party and opponents (you lead what they do) is the best option. Actually I'd very much disagree here. The King functions as the controller. If he moves, the battlefield changes. I can arrange the "perfect" trap for the opponent's king, but as soon as he moved 1 space over, my trap can be foiled, and I have to rethink exactly how to move my pieces in order to once again trap the king. This is similar to the wizard. Say he casts a spll that causes the terrain to become difficult. Suddenly options like charge become less effective, or impossible. The queen, however, when I move her into a space, you either have to find a way to take her out, or back off, because chances are, due to her many movement options she'll be able to get you. I'd agree with most of the above, however, pawns might be controllers in a way. When they move into a space, they limit the spaces your opponent can go... (maybe they're just a terrain effect... :p) [/QUOTE]
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