Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mythological Figures: Fionn mac Cumhail
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marandahir" data-source="post: 8555520" data-attributes="member: 6803643"><p>Nuadat is likely just a euhemerised Nuada. The Irish Cycles did that A LOT, especially when they wanted to graft the stories onto a historical narrative tying back to Troy and Babel.</p><p></p><p>Nuada is likely also the entity known as Elcmar in the Mythological Cycle (both are referred to as the spouse of Boann, who is whisked away by the Dagda without his knowledge to bear the divine son Oengus).</p><p></p><p>Nuada is known elswhere in the Celtic world as Nudd, Nodens, Lludd, Lud, and King Lear, due to confusion between Lludd and Llyr, both sea gods. The tragedy of King Lear is an adaptation of Lludd, not Llyr - Cordelia is Lludd's daughter Creiddylad. Creiddylad was beloved by both Gwythyr ap Greidawl and her own brother, Gwynn ap Nudd (this point was lost upon scholars who thought Nudd and Lludd were separate characters). Gwythyr and Gwynn would fight for her hand every May Day and Halloween, with Gwynn having her in his company in winter and Gwythyr in summer. Combine that with stories about Gwynn's Hounds of Annwfn (ghostly black Hellhounds), and his Wild Hunt (akin to that of Woden in the continent), and it's clear that Gwynn is a winter-underworld deity largely identifiable with Arawn the Otherworld King from the Mabinogion (who is fighting against Hafgan, a name that means "summer-white). Eventually, King Arthur intervenes in this fight and declares Gwythyr the "winner" and forces by military might to have both join his companions and help him hunt a giant raging boar.</p><p></p><p>But more importantly to our narrative here, Gwynn is etymologically identical to Fionn. They're the Welsh and Irish equivalents of each other. Fionn is the grandson of Nuada, and Gwynn is the son of Nudd. These are the same character mythologically.</p><p></p><p>Finally, it should be noted that the Fianna themselves are a variation of the Proto-Indo-European *Kóryos ("war party, brotherhood of arms") - an archetype that involves wandering lordless warrior bands, emulating wolves, barbarian-style rage abilities, and secret induction ceremonies. There are echoes of the *Kóryos with the Ekastaka in India (notably, these young men were inducted during the Winter Solstice - see above and associations of Gwynn with winter), the Athenian Ephebos and Spartan Krypteia, Balkan stories of werewolves and vampires (originally the same idea that diverged in later stories), the Germanic Berserkers and Vikings, Celtic naked woad-warriors such as the Pictish highlanders, the Italic "ver sacrum" ritual, the Armenian manuks, the Scythian warrior bands noted to raid on Anatolia, and the Ossetic "balc" military expeditions with their worship of the wolves & warriors god Wastyrgi during the "month of man-wolves" - again, in winter.</p><p></p><p>So what does this tell us? Fionn himself is a euhemerized deity, or demigod at the very least, associated with wolves, and likely a Barbarian mechanically, but with higher intelligence or wisdom, perhaps a warrior-poet background or a multiclass into Fighter (Battle Master). I really wouldn't choose Ranger first and foremost.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marandahir, post: 8555520, member: 6803643"] Nuadat is likely just a euhemerised Nuada. The Irish Cycles did that A LOT, especially when they wanted to graft the stories onto a historical narrative tying back to Troy and Babel. Nuada is likely also the entity known as Elcmar in the Mythological Cycle (both are referred to as the spouse of Boann, who is whisked away by the Dagda without his knowledge to bear the divine son Oengus). Nuada is known elswhere in the Celtic world as Nudd, Nodens, Lludd, Lud, and King Lear, due to confusion between Lludd and Llyr, both sea gods. The tragedy of King Lear is an adaptation of Lludd, not Llyr - Cordelia is Lludd's daughter Creiddylad. Creiddylad was beloved by both Gwythyr ap Greidawl and her own brother, Gwynn ap Nudd (this point was lost upon scholars who thought Nudd and Lludd were separate characters). Gwythyr and Gwynn would fight for her hand every May Day and Halloween, with Gwynn having her in his company in winter and Gwythyr in summer. Combine that with stories about Gwynn's Hounds of Annwfn (ghostly black Hellhounds), and his Wild Hunt (akin to that of Woden in the continent), and it's clear that Gwynn is a winter-underworld deity largely identifiable with Arawn the Otherworld King from the Mabinogion (who is fighting against Hafgan, a name that means "summer-white). Eventually, King Arthur intervenes in this fight and declares Gwythyr the "winner" and forces by military might to have both join his companions and help him hunt a giant raging boar. But more importantly to our narrative here, Gwynn is etymologically identical to Fionn. They're the Welsh and Irish equivalents of each other. Fionn is the grandson of Nuada, and Gwynn is the son of Nudd. These are the same character mythologically. Finally, it should be noted that the Fianna themselves are a variation of the Proto-Indo-European *Kóryos ("war party, brotherhood of arms") - an archetype that involves wandering lordless warrior bands, emulating wolves, barbarian-style rage abilities, and secret induction ceremonies. There are echoes of the *Kóryos with the Ekastaka in India (notably, these young men were inducted during the Winter Solstice - see above and associations of Gwynn with winter), the Athenian Ephebos and Spartan Krypteia, Balkan stories of werewolves and vampires (originally the same idea that diverged in later stories), the Germanic Berserkers and Vikings, Celtic naked woad-warriors such as the Pictish highlanders, the Italic "ver sacrum" ritual, the Armenian manuks, the Scythian warrior bands noted to raid on Anatolia, and the Ossetic "balc" military expeditions with their worship of the wolves & warriors god Wastyrgi during the "month of man-wolves" - again, in winter. So what does this tell us? Fionn himself is a euhemerized deity, or demigod at the very least, associated with wolves, and likely a Barbarian mechanically, but with higher intelligence or wisdom, perhaps a warrior-poet background or a multiclass into Fighter (Battle Master). I really wouldn't choose Ranger first and foremost. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mythological Figures: Fionn mac Cumhail
Top