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<blockquote data-quote="Murrdox" data-source="post: 921071" data-attributes="member: 10131"><p>I think this is one reason that I'm going to say that Invisible creatures don't provoke AoO...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would NOT want to deal with this as a game mechanic.</p><p></p><p>A Fighter and his Wizard friend are fighting an enemy Wizard. Then EW turns invisible. The FW does likewise. The fighter then miserably fails both spot checks to figure out where the wizards are. But suddenly a wizard is casting a spell next to him, so he can take an AoO. Let's even make it a non-verbal spell, so the Fighter can't recognize his friend's voice.</p><p></p><p>Now, OUT OF GAME, I've got 2 players, one of whom turned invisible, and ran up and cast a protection spell on his ally. Now, my players and I have to argue about whether or not its feasible for his character to attack the spell caster, or whether he expects his friend to cast a spell on him so he'll allow it.</p><p></p><p>This is bad, because the PLAYER KNOWS that his friend cast a spell on him, but he has to play as if he doesn't have that knowledge. And I certainly don't feel like having any invisible character pass me notes describing what they're doing so no one in the party has a clue what's going on.</p><p></p><p>As a DM, I would NOT want to deal with this. It's simpler just to say that Invisible opponents do not provoke AoO. I wouldn't even say that a bull rush, disarm attempt, or grapple check would provoke one. This is namely because you make your AoO BEFORE the action of the provoker finishes... thus you see someone about to grapple you, and you make a stab at him with your sword before he can get ahold on you and start the grapple. The wizard reaches into his component pouch to start casting a spell, and the fighter sees the wizard lower his quarterstaff a bit, and stabs at the opening.</p><p></p><p>If 3.5 came up with some concrete rules on dealing with invisible opponents and AoO, I'd go with them, assuming they're less complex than grappling rules currently are. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>For the record, my personal view of AoO, like Hypersmurf was saying, is attacking openings in a person's defenses. Attack rolls DO mean more than one swing of the sword and such however. I view an AoO by saying that when someone drops their defenses, you begin concentrating your swings on that area, thus taking advantage of the OPPORTUNITY to get in an attack... hense the name. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>But we could debate this all year, as Hyper and Loki pointed out... those are just my thoughts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Murrdox, post: 921071, member: 10131"] I think this is one reason that I'm going to say that Invisible creatures don't provoke AoO... I would NOT want to deal with this as a game mechanic. A Fighter and his Wizard friend are fighting an enemy Wizard. Then EW turns invisible. The FW does likewise. The fighter then miserably fails both spot checks to figure out where the wizards are. But suddenly a wizard is casting a spell next to him, so he can take an AoO. Let's even make it a non-verbal spell, so the Fighter can't recognize his friend's voice. Now, OUT OF GAME, I've got 2 players, one of whom turned invisible, and ran up and cast a protection spell on his ally. Now, my players and I have to argue about whether or not its feasible for his character to attack the spell caster, or whether he expects his friend to cast a spell on him so he'll allow it. This is bad, because the PLAYER KNOWS that his friend cast a spell on him, but he has to play as if he doesn't have that knowledge. And I certainly don't feel like having any invisible character pass me notes describing what they're doing so no one in the party has a clue what's going on. As a DM, I would NOT want to deal with this. It's simpler just to say that Invisible opponents do not provoke AoO. I wouldn't even say that a bull rush, disarm attempt, or grapple check would provoke one. This is namely because you make your AoO BEFORE the action of the provoker finishes... thus you see someone about to grapple you, and you make a stab at him with your sword before he can get ahold on you and start the grapple. The wizard reaches into his component pouch to start casting a spell, and the fighter sees the wizard lower his quarterstaff a bit, and stabs at the opening. If 3.5 came up with some concrete rules on dealing with invisible opponents and AoO, I'd go with them, assuming they're less complex than grappling rules currently are. ;) For the record, my personal view of AoO, like Hypersmurf was saying, is attacking openings in a person's defenses. Attack rolls DO mean more than one swing of the sword and such however. I view an AoO by saying that when someone drops their defenses, you begin concentrating your swings on that area, thus taking advantage of the OPPORTUNITY to get in an attack... hense the name. ;) But we could debate this all year, as Hyper and Loki pointed out... those are just my thoughts. [/QUOTE]
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