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Story Hour
NEW (AGAIN)- Thunderspire Labyrinth- Stat analysis #25 Shrine to Baphomet
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<blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 5183086" data-attributes="member: 16069"><p>H1 Keep on the Shadowfell</p><p>Encounter #1 On The Road: Kobold Brigands</p><p></p><p>Round #3</p><p></p><p>Winstanley- Sly Flourish KM3; Hit 11 damage- DEAD. Move to KM4 (last bad guy).</p><p></p><p>KS- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>Kaspard- Lance of Faith KM4; Miss. Move to KM4.</p><p></p><p>Dirty- Move. Spinning Sweep KM4; Hit 10 damage- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>Time to play 3 minutes.</p><p>Total time to play 26 minutes.</p><p></p><p>End of Combat-</p><p></p><p>Good Guys</p><p>McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27/27)</p><p>Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP22/31)</p><p>Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP22/26)</p><p>Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP21/25)</p><p>Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP23/23)</p><p></p><p>Bad Guys 475XP Level 1 Encounter.</p><p>Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x5) (HP1) DEAD</p><p>Kobold Slinger Level 1 Artillery [KS] (HP24) DEAD</p><p>Kobold Dragonshield Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP36) DEAD</p><p></p><p>Action Points 0 Total 3</p><p>Daily Powers 0 Total 4</p><p>Healing Surges 0 Total 2</p><p>2nd Winds 0 Total 1</p><p>Crits 0 Total 0</p><p></p><p>Comment: Encounter played well, easy victory- PCs now aware of what they can do when they up the damage ratio courtesy of Action Points and Daily Powers. Also, hopefully, get them to appreciate the Perception roll.</p><p></p><p>Stats: While the Kobolds managed to land 80% of their attack rolls they only got to make 10 attacks, half of them against Dirty (Defender) who just soaked it up and asked for more. The PCs on the other hand landed 59.09% of their attacks, with Winstanley (Striker) connecting every time he attacked (Winstanley (Striker) 100%- 4 from 4; Dirty (Defender) 60%; McGyver (Defender) & Grey (Controller) 50% & Kaspard (Leader) 33.33%). The PCs however made 22 attack rolls in the space of three rounds, thanks to the use of action points. While the Kobolds were dishing out 13 hit points damage per round the PCs were averaging 53.33 hit points damage per round- 12.31 points of damage per hit, that may prove to be up there for first level characters. Once again thanks to the use of action points. </p><p></p><p>Winstanley came out on top averaging 17.67 points of damage per round, Dirty second with 15.67, and Grey third with 11 points of damage per round. The Kobolds combined only had 101 hit points- a slaughter, in which they only managed to inflict 39 points of damage on the PCs in reply- I guess that's what comes of letting the PCs unleash hell on a Level 1 Encounter, still made everyone present grin.</p><p></p><p>As the fights add up then the totalled data will inevitably provide further insights, I think it will be good to compare results for the PCs at Level 1, against the results at Level 2, Level 3, and on. I am unsure exactly as to what I am trying to show with this, partially because I am only doing the maths as I go along- I haven't added things up ahead of time so as to appear smarter than I am at the conclusion.</p><p></p><p>I think I want to know what grind is, I've read a lot of columns here at ENWorld that talk about grind and obviously I've experienced it for myself, I think. Does grind come about just when PCs are up against Level +n encounters, is it inevitable, is it wholly or partially subject to the roll of a dice. For example we were grinding through an encounter last Saturday (10th round of combat, over an hour in the one fight) when I rolled a crit on the PCs Defender, who up until that point was blocking a doorway and keeping a group of reinforcements at bay. The Defender hit the deck and panic ensued, all the more memorable (the PCs eventually won through) because of the six or so rounds spent holding station and grinding the bad guys down. Is this grind- the six rounds spent employing defensive tactics to minimalise the monsters attack capabilities? Do the PCs chose grind rather than risk defeat?</p><p></p><p>I've taken advice from other players and DMs here- calling fights when the end is seemingly inevitable, note this always happens when the PCs are winning, and never when the monsters have the players on the ropes- we always play the later encounters out. In my own games I have found that waving the fights when the outcome seems inevitable to be a little bothersome, unless the PCs are happy to forfeit say a Healing Surge each. In KOTS we played out every fight to its conclusion, and sometimes things don't go as planned for the PCs, even when the fight looks to be over. When I waved fights I found myself having to then increase the difficulty of the following encounters as the PCs seemed always to be able to maintain a reserve of Healing Surges and Daily Powers to call upon- which sometimes lead to more grind. Harder encounters often lead to a more conservative approach- it's a balancing act.</p><p></p><p>I found that the final turns of a fight often sap just enough of the players resources to make the next fight, or the one after that, infinitely more interesting, the conclusion all the more climactic, the price for this is grind in some of the earlier fights, at least in my games. I've been playing 4e since it came out, the most memorable fights IMHO came when the players were prevaricating as to whether to attempt the last fight or not- one player with no Healing Surges, several others without Daily Powers, and just the other side of the door- victory, glory, the treasure, the reward and possibly their deaths.</p><p></p><p>And grind, well when I played using Maptools & Skype then things moved much slower, a four hour session with Level 11 characters perhaps had room enough for two combat encounters, with not much either side of them. The grind exacerbated by the fact the players were in the Pyramid of Shadows, and hindered by technology (at times), and more often by real life that continued apace in the background, and often moved to the foreground, with players (and the DM) having to be elsewhere for a moment (or two).</p><p></p><p>Around the table my perception of grind is changing, it's often the gap between the dramatic opening rounds (surprise and its aftermath) and the closing rounds (sometimes climactic) when the PCs are having to chip away at the bad guys and weather whatever storm I have devised. Grind now is often opting for the safer option, it's more bearable these days- but that's because around the table all of the fights go a lot quicker, at least they have so far; then again we haven't hit Level 11, or the Pyramid of Shadows yet.</p><p></p><p>Feel free to add any comments or observations, if there's a particular piece of data you wish for me to map over the course of this experiment then just ask- if I can, I will.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Goonalan, post: 5183086, member: 16069"] H1 Keep on the Shadowfell Encounter #1 On The Road: Kobold Brigands Round #3 Winstanley- Sly Flourish KM3; Hit 11 damage- DEAD. Move to KM4 (last bad guy). KS- DEAD. Kaspard- Lance of Faith KM4; Miss. Move to KM4. Dirty- Move. Spinning Sweep KM4; Hit 10 damage- DEAD. Time to play 3 minutes. Total time to play 26 minutes. End of Combat- Good Guys McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP27/27) Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP22/31) Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP22/26) Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP21/25) Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP23/23) Bad Guys 475XP Level 1 Encounter. Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x5) (HP1) DEAD Kobold Slinger Level 1 Artillery [KS] (HP24) DEAD Kobold Dragonshield Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP36) DEAD Action Points 0 Total 3 Daily Powers 0 Total 4 Healing Surges 0 Total 2 2nd Winds 0 Total 1 Crits 0 Total 0 Comment: Encounter played well, easy victory- PCs now aware of what they can do when they up the damage ratio courtesy of Action Points and Daily Powers. Also, hopefully, get them to appreciate the Perception roll. Stats: While the Kobolds managed to land 80% of their attack rolls they only got to make 10 attacks, half of them against Dirty (Defender) who just soaked it up and asked for more. The PCs on the other hand landed 59.09% of their attacks, with Winstanley (Striker) connecting every time he attacked (Winstanley (Striker) 100%- 4 from 4; Dirty (Defender) 60%; McGyver (Defender) & Grey (Controller) 50% & Kaspard (Leader) 33.33%). The PCs however made 22 attack rolls in the space of three rounds, thanks to the use of action points. While the Kobolds were dishing out 13 hit points damage per round the PCs were averaging 53.33 hit points damage per round- 12.31 points of damage per hit, that may prove to be up there for first level characters. Once again thanks to the use of action points. Winstanley came out on top averaging 17.67 points of damage per round, Dirty second with 15.67, and Grey third with 11 points of damage per round. The Kobolds combined only had 101 hit points- a slaughter, in which they only managed to inflict 39 points of damage on the PCs in reply- I guess that's what comes of letting the PCs unleash hell on a Level 1 Encounter, still made everyone present grin. As the fights add up then the totalled data will inevitably provide further insights, I think it will be good to compare results for the PCs at Level 1, against the results at Level 2, Level 3, and on. I am unsure exactly as to what I am trying to show with this, partially because I am only doing the maths as I go along- I haven't added things up ahead of time so as to appear smarter than I am at the conclusion. I think I want to know what grind is, I've read a lot of columns here at ENWorld that talk about grind and obviously I've experienced it for myself, I think. Does grind come about just when PCs are up against Level +n encounters, is it inevitable, is it wholly or partially subject to the roll of a dice. For example we were grinding through an encounter last Saturday (10th round of combat, over an hour in the one fight) when I rolled a crit on the PCs Defender, who up until that point was blocking a doorway and keeping a group of reinforcements at bay. The Defender hit the deck and panic ensued, all the more memorable (the PCs eventually won through) because of the six or so rounds spent holding station and grinding the bad guys down. Is this grind- the six rounds spent employing defensive tactics to minimalise the monsters attack capabilities? Do the PCs chose grind rather than risk defeat? I've taken advice from other players and DMs here- calling fights when the end is seemingly inevitable, note this always happens when the PCs are winning, and never when the monsters have the players on the ropes- we always play the later encounters out. In my own games I have found that waving the fights when the outcome seems inevitable to be a little bothersome, unless the PCs are happy to forfeit say a Healing Surge each. In KOTS we played out every fight to its conclusion, and sometimes things don't go as planned for the PCs, even when the fight looks to be over. When I waved fights I found myself having to then increase the difficulty of the following encounters as the PCs seemed always to be able to maintain a reserve of Healing Surges and Daily Powers to call upon- which sometimes lead to more grind. Harder encounters often lead to a more conservative approach- it's a balancing act. I found that the final turns of a fight often sap just enough of the players resources to make the next fight, or the one after that, infinitely more interesting, the conclusion all the more climactic, the price for this is grind in some of the earlier fights, at least in my games. I've been playing 4e since it came out, the most memorable fights IMHO came when the players were prevaricating as to whether to attempt the last fight or not- one player with no Healing Surges, several others without Daily Powers, and just the other side of the door- victory, glory, the treasure, the reward and possibly their deaths. And grind, well when I played using Maptools & Skype then things moved much slower, a four hour session with Level 11 characters perhaps had room enough for two combat encounters, with not much either side of them. The grind exacerbated by the fact the players were in the Pyramid of Shadows, and hindered by technology (at times), and more often by real life that continued apace in the background, and often moved to the foreground, with players (and the DM) having to be elsewhere for a moment (or two). Around the table my perception of grind is changing, it's often the gap between the dramatic opening rounds (surprise and its aftermath) and the closing rounds (sometimes climactic) when the PCs are having to chip away at the bad guys and weather whatever storm I have devised. Grind now is often opting for the safer option, it's more bearable these days- but that's because around the table all of the fights go a lot quicker, at least they have so far; then again we haven't hit Level 11, or the Pyramid of Shadows yet. Feel free to add any comments or observations, if there's a particular piece of data you wish for me to map over the course of this experiment then just ask- if I can, I will. [/QUOTE]
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