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NEW (AGAIN)- Thunderspire Labyrinth- Stat analysis #25 Shrine to Baphomet
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<blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 5206896" data-attributes="member: 16069"><p>H1 Keep on the Shadowfell</p><p>Encounter #4 A3 Kobold Lair, Inside (do you see what WOTC did there).</p><p></p><p>Round #12</p><p></p><p>Grey- Stand. Heal check (Stabilise) McGyver- '7' Fail.</p><p></p><p>KD1- Double Move Flee out of the Lair.</p><p></p><p>KD2- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>Dirty- Move. Heal check (Stabilise) McGyver- '4' Fail.</p><p></p><p>Winstanley- Move. Heal check (Stabilise) McGyver- '14' Fail.</p><p></p><p>KM1- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM2- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM3- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM4- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM5- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM6- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM7- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM8- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM9- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>KM10- DEAD.</p><p></p><p>McGyver- Death Save- '8' Fail [3 FAILS]- DEAD</p><p></p><p>Time to play 5 minutes (not including time taken up by screaming and threatening to smash things up by various players after James (McGyver) rolled his '8' and dead).</p><p>Total time to play 1 hour & 30 minutes.</p><p></p><p>End of Combat-</p><p></p><p>Good Guys</p><p>McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP-2/27) DEAD</p><p>Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP1/31)</p><p>Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP10/26)</p><p>Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP12/25)</p><p>Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP5/23)</p><p></p><p>Bad Guys 1250XP Level 6 Encounter.</p><p>Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 10 DEAD</p><p>Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher [KS] (x3) (HP27) 3 DEAD</p><p>Kobold Denwarden Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP19/36) 1 DEAD & 1 FLED</p><p>Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery [KW] (HP10/36) FLED</p><p>Irontooth the Goblin Level 3 Elite Brute [Iron] (HP106) DEAD</p><p></p><p>Action Points 0 Total 10</p><p>Daily Powers 0 Total 4</p><p>Healing Surges 0 Total 8</p><p>2nd Winds 0 Total 2</p><p>Crits 0 Total 0</p><p>PCs Ko'd 0 Total 6</p><p>PCs DEAD 1 Total 1</p><p>Bad Guys Action Points 0 Total 1 </p><p></p><p>Comment: A ten minute interlude follows in which- well, lots of gesticulating and raised voices, and laughter I may add, half finished sentences bitten of by the players are the order of the day-</p><p></p><p>“But, what if...”</p><p>“That's not... I mean...”</p><p></p><p>That kind of thing except peppered with expletives, eventually (after more laughter) everyone gets a drink and calms down.</p><p></p><p>Quite a sting in the tail. McGyver, the party leader bites the bullet, James who plays McGyver is quite sanguine about the whole thing, the other players moan and wail and gnash their teeth beseeching the gods for mercy, or at least a do-over. James on the other hand goes in search of the other pre-gen characters I've brought with me. He likes 4e, he's not stopping now, nobody's stopping now- the game is a hit.</p><p></p><p>So, a bloody battle, with a touch of grind- although it never felt for a second like that. The players re-group, search the lair and grab their rewards, including a letter signed by someone called Kalarel, something about his spy in Winterhaven. The treasure also includes some nice armour- now belonging to Dirty and a pile of gold coins. </p><p></p><p>The players head back to their temporary home, Winterhaven, with McGyver's body for burial, and new info for Lord Padraig- the Kobold menace has been ended.</p><p></p><p>The first session ends, about four-and-a-half hours to play; four combat encounters and an hour or so role-playing in Winterhaven, an excellent session I think, and the players certainly want more.</p><p></p><p>This is the fourth time I have played this encounter, on three occasions the Kobold Wyrmpriest has fled the lair to fight another day, the only time he did not escape the lair was because I TPK'ed the PCs in question.</p><p></p><p>Stats: Thirteen turns to play out, one-and-a-half hours exactly- grind? A strange thing happened in this fight, the table below represents the amount of damage done by the PC's versus the bad guys, turn by turn-</p><p></p><p>Surprise- 78 vs. 0</p><p>1- 65 vs. 12</p><p>2- 75 vs. 28</p><p>3- 32 vs. 21</p><p>4- 39 vs. 21</p><p>5- 40 vs. 23</p><p>6- 44 vs. 81</p><p>7- 12 vs. 17</p><p>8- 0 vs. 16</p><p>9- 0 vs. 9</p><p>10- 14 vs. 10</p><p>11- 13 vs. 2</p><p>12- 0 vs. 0</p><p></p><p>So we start off hell for leather, Surprise to Turn 3; then it drops off as enemies become scarce, particularly easy to hit enemies (Minions and those in clumps ideal for Blast or Burst attacks). The PC's keep up the damage rate Turns 4 to 6, at which point Irontooth Action Points and the bad guys deal 81 Hit Points damage in a Turn, which inevitably means several PCs get to sit down (0 HP). Thereafter the PCs spend two Turns scrabbling for Healing, then finally get lucky (How many '20' rolls for Heal checks?) and get back in working order, only now the enemies are very thin on the ground and the PCs have At Wills left (mostly). If Grey hadn't taken Irontooth down in Turn 7 then... TPK?</p><p></p><p>This is the first encounter in which the bad guys scored a better hit rate than the PCs, bad guys 71.43%, PCs 61.29%. Still the PCs managed to land more attacks than the monsters, 38 (from 62) versus 30 (from 42); the PCs still managed to do much more damage/turn 31.69 HP, as opposed to the bad guys 18.46- the monsters have closed though. In Combat Encounter #1 the PCs did 4 x monster damage/turn, in #2 2.5 x monster damage, in #3 nearly 6 x monster damage; in this Combat Encounter it was down to 1.5 x monster damage.</p><p></p><p>Although this fight took 90 minutes to play out the actual time/turn dropped to 6.92 minutes, the quickest average time per turn for the four combats so far- the players seemed to zone in to the fight, in desperation they became eager to get around to their turn. At times there was a little bit of stop-starting, but for the most part the fight gripped the players and so went quickly, clearly, from our perspective, this isn't grind.</p><p></p><p>Combined Stats: We're at the end of the first session of play, so a brief overview of the situation so far, hopefully a better picture will emerge when the PCs level up and I can analyse all the Combat Encounters they played out as Level 1 PCs.</p><p></p><p>Most effective (hit rate) PC attacks to date, criteria minimum 5 attacks made-</p><p></p><p>40% Dirty's AoO Maul (2 hits from 5 attacks) for 22 damage in total- 11 average.</p><p>40% Dirty's Brute Strike (2 hits from 5 attacks) for 50 damage in total- 25 average.</p><p>50% Dirty's Charge (4 hits from 8 attacks) for 43 damage in total- 10.75 average.</p><p>50% Kaspard's Lance of Faith (4 hits from 8 attacks) for 30 damage in total- 7.5 average.</p><p>53.85% Grey's Scorching Burst (7 hits from 13 attacks) for 43 damage in total- 6.14 average.</p><p>54.55% Grey's Magic Missile (6 hits from 11 attacks) for 60 damage in total- 10 average.</p><p>60% Kaspard's Sacred Flame (6 hits from 10 attacks) for 39 damage in total- 6.5 average.</p><p>66.67% McGyver's Dragon Breath (6 hits from 9 attacks) for 28 damage in total- 4.67 average.</p><p>69.23% Grey's Burning Hands (9 hits from 13 attacks) for 98 damage in total- 10.89 average.</p><p>78.57% Winstanley's Sly Flourish (11 hits from 14 attacks) for 154 damage in total- 14 average.</p><p>80% McGyver's Valiant Strike (8 hits from 10 attacks) for 73 damage in total- 9.13 average.</p><p>100% Winstanley's Deft Strike (5 hits from 5 attacks) for 63 damage in total- 12.6 average.</p><p></p><p>Note Dirty has not made 5 attacks with any of his At Will powers so far, he tends to go headlong with the Charge.</p><p></p><p>Overal Strike rate by PC.</p><p></p><p>44.83% Dirty (13 hits from 29 attacks) for 184 damage in total- 14.15 average.</p><p>60% Kaspard (12 hits from 20 attacks) for 83 damage in total- 6.92 average.</p><p>60.98% Grey (25 hits from 41 attacks) for 229 damage in total- 9.16 average.</p><p>75% McGyver (21 hits from 28 attacks) for 195 damage in total- 9.29 average.</p><p>87.5% Winstanley (21 hits from 24 attacks) for 279 damage in total- 13.29 average.</p><p></p><p>Winstnley- wow! He's missed three attacks in 27 turns of Combat. I guess he's the Striker then.</p><p></p><p>Hit Points Damage taken by PC.</p><p></p><p>43 Grey (hit 6 times from 8 attacks).</p><p>46 Kaspard (hit 7 times from 9 attacks).</p><p>52 Winstanley (hit 7 times from 11 attacks).</p><p>119 McGyver (hit 17 times from 28 attacks).</p><p>138 Dirty (hit 19 times from 31 attacks).</p><p></p><p>Again, this simply shows that Defenders get into the thick of it, the Striker has to go there on occasion, while the Leader and the Controller stay as far away as they can- Kaspard is a laser Cleric.</p><p></p><p>The PCs have used on average 3.25 Action Points/Encounter; 4.75 Healing Surges/Encounter & 2.25 Daily Powers/Encounter. Although this is all skewed as Combat #1 was a Daily Power and Action Point free-for-all, and the last Encounter (#4) was incredibly difficult.</p><p></p><p>Combat turns 1 & 2 are still the big damage turns, averages- 60.5 & 61.75 hit points damage respectively. The same could be said for the monsters although their average damage for turns 1 & 2 are- 18.75 & 21 hit points damage respectively. These two turns also take the longest average time to play out- 11 and 8.75 minutes respectively.</p><p></p><p>So Combat seems to be front-loaded, an inevitable conclusion; with First Strike, maximum targets for area and blast effects and perhaps opportune moments for Encounter Power use, the opening turns of combat are certainly when the swords and spells are flying. Is this part and parcel of the dramatic increase in hit points for monsters, after all a miss is still a miss- failing to connect with an attack in 4e brings a greater penalty, particularly in these opening turns, it makes for a prolonged combat encounter, and the increased possibility of players dropping.</p><p></p><p>In 3x edition games then the a 1HD Orc with 8 Hit Points could be despatched with one good hit, in 4e the same Orc with, for example, 28 Hit Points now requires several hits, certainly (most of the time) more damage than a 1st Level PC is capable of doing even with a Daily Power.</p><p></p><p>To counter this combat lag 4e has Minions and Action Points, what the above analysis is (perhaps) starting to show is that even with an 87.5% hit rate (Winstanley) there are going to turns when none of the bad guys are going to fall, save the Minions and those subject to massive concentrations of attacks, therefore some turns are going to be about attrition rates- which is where Healing Surges and those classes that trigger Healing come into their own- a look at this another day. Are these segments of attrition grind?</p><p></p><p>And so after 4 combat encounters, 27 turns play; the average combat (Encounter Level 2.5) takes 6.75 turns to play out, each turn taking 7.3 minutes to play- for a total of 49.25 minutes/encounter.</p><p></p><p>However, and this is a big however, that's for the four combat encounters we've played and analysed so far, perhaps the stats will begin to plateau and offer different results after a few more encounters.</p><p></p><p>Tomorrow, session 2 begins.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Goonalan, post: 5206896, member: 16069"] H1 Keep on the Shadowfell Encounter #4 A3 Kobold Lair, Inside (do you see what WOTC did there). Round #12 Grey- Stand. Heal check (Stabilise) McGyver- '7' Fail. KD1- Double Move Flee out of the Lair. KD2- DEAD. Dirty- Move. Heal check (Stabilise) McGyver- '4' Fail. Winstanley- Move. Heal check (Stabilise) McGyver- '14' Fail. KM1- DEAD. KM2- DEAD. KM3- DEAD. KM4- DEAD. KM5- DEAD. KM6- DEAD. KM7- DEAD. KM8- DEAD. KM9- DEAD. KM10- DEAD. McGyver- Death Save- '8' Fail [3 FAILS]- DEAD Time to play 5 minutes (not including time taken up by screaming and threatening to smash things up by various players after James (McGyver) rolled his '8' and dead). Total time to play 1 hour & 30 minutes. End of Combat- Good Guys McGyver, Male Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut 1 (HP-2/27) DEAD Dirty Biskit, Male Dwarven Fighter 1 (HP1/31) Kaspard, Female Half-Elf Cleric of Bahamut 1 (HP10/26) Winstanley Portico, Male Halfling Rogue 1 (HP12/25) Grey Morlock, Male Human Wizard 1 (HP5/23) Bad Guys 1250XP Level 6 Encounter. Kobold Minion Level 1 Minion [KM] (x10) (HP1) 10 DEAD Kobold Skirmisher Level 1 Skirmisher [KS] (x3) (HP27) 3 DEAD Kobold Denwarden Level 2 Soldier [KD] (x2) (HP19/36) 1 DEAD & 1 FLED Kobold Wyrmpriest Level 3 Artillery [KW] (HP10/36) FLED Irontooth the Goblin Level 3 Elite Brute [Iron] (HP106) DEAD Action Points 0 Total 10 Daily Powers 0 Total 4 Healing Surges 0 Total 8 2nd Winds 0 Total 2 Crits 0 Total 0 PCs Ko'd 0 Total 6 PCs DEAD 1 Total 1 Bad Guys Action Points 0 Total 1 Comment: A ten minute interlude follows in which- well, lots of gesticulating and raised voices, and laughter I may add, half finished sentences bitten of by the players are the order of the day- “But, what if...” “That's not... I mean...” That kind of thing except peppered with expletives, eventually (after more laughter) everyone gets a drink and calms down. Quite a sting in the tail. McGyver, the party leader bites the bullet, James who plays McGyver is quite sanguine about the whole thing, the other players moan and wail and gnash their teeth beseeching the gods for mercy, or at least a do-over. James on the other hand goes in search of the other pre-gen characters I've brought with me. He likes 4e, he's not stopping now, nobody's stopping now- the game is a hit. So, a bloody battle, with a touch of grind- although it never felt for a second like that. The players re-group, search the lair and grab their rewards, including a letter signed by someone called Kalarel, something about his spy in Winterhaven. The treasure also includes some nice armour- now belonging to Dirty and a pile of gold coins. The players head back to their temporary home, Winterhaven, with McGyver's body for burial, and new info for Lord Padraig- the Kobold menace has been ended. The first session ends, about four-and-a-half hours to play; four combat encounters and an hour or so role-playing in Winterhaven, an excellent session I think, and the players certainly want more. This is the fourth time I have played this encounter, on three occasions the Kobold Wyrmpriest has fled the lair to fight another day, the only time he did not escape the lair was because I TPK'ed the PCs in question. Stats: Thirteen turns to play out, one-and-a-half hours exactly- grind? A strange thing happened in this fight, the table below represents the amount of damage done by the PC's versus the bad guys, turn by turn- Surprise- 78 vs. 0 1- 65 vs. 12 2- 75 vs. 28 3- 32 vs. 21 4- 39 vs. 21 5- 40 vs. 23 6- 44 vs. 81 7- 12 vs. 17 8- 0 vs. 16 9- 0 vs. 9 10- 14 vs. 10 11- 13 vs. 2 12- 0 vs. 0 So we start off hell for leather, Surprise to Turn 3; then it drops off as enemies become scarce, particularly easy to hit enemies (Minions and those in clumps ideal for Blast or Burst attacks). The PC's keep up the damage rate Turns 4 to 6, at which point Irontooth Action Points and the bad guys deal 81 Hit Points damage in a Turn, which inevitably means several PCs get to sit down (0 HP). Thereafter the PCs spend two Turns scrabbling for Healing, then finally get lucky (How many '20' rolls for Heal checks?) and get back in working order, only now the enemies are very thin on the ground and the PCs have At Wills left (mostly). If Grey hadn't taken Irontooth down in Turn 7 then... TPK? This is the first encounter in which the bad guys scored a better hit rate than the PCs, bad guys 71.43%, PCs 61.29%. Still the PCs managed to land more attacks than the monsters, 38 (from 62) versus 30 (from 42); the PCs still managed to do much more damage/turn 31.69 HP, as opposed to the bad guys 18.46- the monsters have closed though. In Combat Encounter #1 the PCs did 4 x monster damage/turn, in #2 2.5 x monster damage, in #3 nearly 6 x monster damage; in this Combat Encounter it was down to 1.5 x monster damage. Although this fight took 90 minutes to play out the actual time/turn dropped to 6.92 minutes, the quickest average time per turn for the four combats so far- the players seemed to zone in to the fight, in desperation they became eager to get around to their turn. At times there was a little bit of stop-starting, but for the most part the fight gripped the players and so went quickly, clearly, from our perspective, this isn't grind. Combined Stats: We're at the end of the first session of play, so a brief overview of the situation so far, hopefully a better picture will emerge when the PCs level up and I can analyse all the Combat Encounters they played out as Level 1 PCs. Most effective (hit rate) PC attacks to date, criteria minimum 5 attacks made- 40% Dirty's AoO Maul (2 hits from 5 attacks) for 22 damage in total- 11 average. 40% Dirty's Brute Strike (2 hits from 5 attacks) for 50 damage in total- 25 average. 50% Dirty's Charge (4 hits from 8 attacks) for 43 damage in total- 10.75 average. 50% Kaspard's Lance of Faith (4 hits from 8 attacks) for 30 damage in total- 7.5 average. 53.85% Grey's Scorching Burst (7 hits from 13 attacks) for 43 damage in total- 6.14 average. 54.55% Grey's Magic Missile (6 hits from 11 attacks) for 60 damage in total- 10 average. 60% Kaspard's Sacred Flame (6 hits from 10 attacks) for 39 damage in total- 6.5 average. 66.67% McGyver's Dragon Breath (6 hits from 9 attacks) for 28 damage in total- 4.67 average. 69.23% Grey's Burning Hands (9 hits from 13 attacks) for 98 damage in total- 10.89 average. 78.57% Winstanley's Sly Flourish (11 hits from 14 attacks) for 154 damage in total- 14 average. 80% McGyver's Valiant Strike (8 hits from 10 attacks) for 73 damage in total- 9.13 average. 100% Winstanley's Deft Strike (5 hits from 5 attacks) for 63 damage in total- 12.6 average. Note Dirty has not made 5 attacks with any of his At Will powers so far, he tends to go headlong with the Charge. Overal Strike rate by PC. 44.83% Dirty (13 hits from 29 attacks) for 184 damage in total- 14.15 average. 60% Kaspard (12 hits from 20 attacks) for 83 damage in total- 6.92 average. 60.98% Grey (25 hits from 41 attacks) for 229 damage in total- 9.16 average. 75% McGyver (21 hits from 28 attacks) for 195 damage in total- 9.29 average. 87.5% Winstanley (21 hits from 24 attacks) for 279 damage in total- 13.29 average. Winstnley- wow! He's missed three attacks in 27 turns of Combat. I guess he's the Striker then. Hit Points Damage taken by PC. 43 Grey (hit 6 times from 8 attacks). 46 Kaspard (hit 7 times from 9 attacks). 52 Winstanley (hit 7 times from 11 attacks). 119 McGyver (hit 17 times from 28 attacks). 138 Dirty (hit 19 times from 31 attacks). Again, this simply shows that Defenders get into the thick of it, the Striker has to go there on occasion, while the Leader and the Controller stay as far away as they can- Kaspard is a laser Cleric. The PCs have used on average 3.25 Action Points/Encounter; 4.75 Healing Surges/Encounter & 2.25 Daily Powers/Encounter. Although this is all skewed as Combat #1 was a Daily Power and Action Point free-for-all, and the last Encounter (#4) was incredibly difficult. Combat turns 1 & 2 are still the big damage turns, averages- 60.5 & 61.75 hit points damage respectively. The same could be said for the monsters although their average damage for turns 1 & 2 are- 18.75 & 21 hit points damage respectively. These two turns also take the longest average time to play out- 11 and 8.75 minutes respectively. So Combat seems to be front-loaded, an inevitable conclusion; with First Strike, maximum targets for area and blast effects and perhaps opportune moments for Encounter Power use, the opening turns of combat are certainly when the swords and spells are flying. Is this part and parcel of the dramatic increase in hit points for monsters, after all a miss is still a miss- failing to connect with an attack in 4e brings a greater penalty, particularly in these opening turns, it makes for a prolonged combat encounter, and the increased possibility of players dropping. In 3x edition games then the a 1HD Orc with 8 Hit Points could be despatched with one good hit, in 4e the same Orc with, for example, 28 Hit Points now requires several hits, certainly (most of the time) more damage than a 1st Level PC is capable of doing even with a Daily Power. To counter this combat lag 4e has Minions and Action Points, what the above analysis is (perhaps) starting to show is that even with an 87.5% hit rate (Winstanley) there are going to turns when none of the bad guys are going to fall, save the Minions and those subject to massive concentrations of attacks, therefore some turns are going to be about attrition rates- which is where Healing Surges and those classes that trigger Healing come into their own- a look at this another day. Are these segments of attrition grind? And so after 4 combat encounters, 27 turns play; the average combat (Encounter Level 2.5) takes 6.75 turns to play out, each turn taking 7.3 minutes to play- for a total of 49.25 minutes/encounter. However, and this is a big however, that's for the four combat encounters we've played and analysed so far, perhaps the stats will begin to plateau and offer different results after a few more encounters. Tomorrow, session 2 begins. [/QUOTE]
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