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New Class (XPH): Primalist - Seeking comments
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<blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1588904" data-attributes="member: 2167"><p>First – thanks for all the comments. I will be tweaking and changing for a second draft, and hope the comments will be as prolific. BTW Kyamsil… I assume you dislike the Pyro as it is written?</p><p></p><p>Now to the replies…</p><p></p><p></p><p>That was the basic idea, but to expand it into a full psionic class that accesses all of the primal kinetic energies. Also note that this would replace the Pyro similar to making the Soulknife into a full class rather than a PrC.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>* BAB = Same as Wilder, Pyro, PsyWar, and Soulknife. Only the Psion has Bad BAB.</p><p>* D6 HD = Better than Psion; Equal to Wilder; Worse than PsyWar, Soulknife and Pyro.</p><p>* # of Saves = Same as Pyro, Soulknife; makes more sense for a primalist</p><p>* Skill Points = Same as Wilder and Soulknife (House Rule – we give all classes min. 4+, but its negotiable for the class design)</p><p></p><p>As a comparison to the Psychic Warrior, most Psi classes are better. They are primarily fighters with a tiny bit of Psi power. Basically the bards of psionics. 90% of all Psychic Warriors will likely by Pyros or MC Soulknives.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I had thought about this and wavered on the line. I was afraid of making them too much like the Wilder by making the Charisma based. I agree that it does make more sense though, especially considering the non-lawful aspect of the class. Changed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wasn’t sure on this one. Again I was trying to shy away from making them too much like a Wilder, but I also wanted them to have little bit more flexibility in their powers, but less power (thus ½ the Power Points). However, considering the balance factors, I guess this class needs to be more like the wilder, just substituting their Kinetic Powers for the Wilder powers. However, with that said – should they get Wilder Power Points or remain at the Half PP progression? </p><p></p><p>Current change is 1 off from the Wilder so that new powers are learned on levels they Don’t get a class ability. Still end up with only 11 powers as the Wilder.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Within the “Energy” psionic powers this is correct. There are acid psionic powers however, and I was trying to get a full elemental feel to their abilities. Granted the acidic powers are Metabolic rather than kinetic, I will have to concede and remove the earth/acid aspect.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, a few comments. The Primalist weapon is <strong>only</strong> better than a Soulkife weapon in that they can choose any light or single-handed simple or martial weapon instead of just a Short Sword. Keep in mind that a Soulkife’s blade is stackable with all benefits as well. Skn’s weapons also gain the following that primalist doesn’t:</p><p>* Skn weapon improves with level.</p><p>* Skn weapon can overcome <em>Null Psion Fields</em> and <em>Dispelling</em>.</p><p></p><p>As to DR. This could be a valid point. Sonic does have few resistances. However, for the primalist the weapon must be an energy weapon. Another issue to consider is that ‘Psionic Weapon’ also deals damage that has almost no resistance. I do however, like the idea of choosing the energy type at levels.</p><p><em>“At 1st level the primalist can choose one energy type to manifest from cold, electricity or fire. At 5th and 10th level they may choose another energy type that they may manifest at will from cold, electricity or fire. At 15th level the primalist also gains the sonic energy type as a manifestation energy choice.“</em></p><p></p><p>As to weapon type. I wanted the class to be more individualistic and customizable. Soulknives get Short Swords only, and Pyro’s get Whip only. I wanted to have a class that got to choose their weapon type. If you want to have a dwarven primalist using a dwarven war axe or an elven primalist with a rapier, etc. you could. This also makes issues of resizing easy as it follows the standard rules for the weapon type.</p><p></p><p>Activation cost. The only issue with this is that neither the Pyro nor the Soulknife pay a cost for creating their weapons. ‘Psionic Weapon’ requires expending focus but does a lot more damage, and expending focus can be easily overcome with the Hustle and ‘Psionic Meditation’ combo.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Based From:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Granted this is against a single element. The issue is that the primalist should be resistant to all kinetic energy, not just one or two. How about the following?</p><p></p><p>Adaptation (2nd): +4 to all saves vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.</p><p>Improved (12th): As adaptation + ER 5 vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.</p><p>Greater (20th): As improved but increase to ER 10 vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As mentioned Primal Bolt = Bolt of Fire. As mentioned its part of the Pyro class. However Pyro doesn’t have its own PP’s and Powers Known, but it is assumed that the Pyro is an existing Psionic Class due to its entry requirements. Thus I have to assume it is not as unbalanced as Kyamsil thinks. Especially with the much reduced number of known powers, this may be the primary ranged offense for the class.</p><p></p><p>As to damage/power level, compare to “Energy Bolt”. Primal Bolt has ½ the range, is a ranged touch attack effecting only 1 target rather than an AoE effecting all within the 120’ line of the bolt. Damage is 1d6/2 levels (max 10d6 at 20th) whereas Energy Bolt does 5d6 base + bonuses based on energy type and can be increased by 1d6 per PP spent (no limit) and also increases save DC dramatically.</p><p></p><p>For sonic the following additional statement: <em>“A bolt of sonic energy deals –1 point of damage per die but ignores an object’s hardness”</em> as per ‘Energy Bolt’.</p><p></p><p>Expending focus would only result in a possible slowdown in use of the ability, defeated by the ‘Psionic Meditation’ and Hustle combination. Compared to the Pyro’s ‘Bolt of Fire’ or the Soulknife’s thrown blade , I don’t see it as entirely necessary.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This ability is directly from the Pyro but with the choice of energy type instead of only Fire.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, this is directly from the Pyro’s Nimbus ability. The power also grants damage reduction 5/magic but less ‘retort’ damage than ‘Energy Retort’. Note that I also DROPPED the +4 Charisma score boost from this ability.</p><p></p><p>Also with the much severely reduced number of known powers available to the class, it makes this an even more useful ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This was added using the basic ability of designed for the Elocator to replace the “Firewalk” of the Pyro and to give a more “elementalist” aspect to the class as well as a non-combat/utility ability. It could be replaced with the Firewalk ability again instead, but I preferred the idea of simply adding to related but “external” psionic powers to their known power list and making them spend the power points for them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This ability is straight from the Pyro, though delayed to 16th level and with more flavor than just heat. Keep in mind for a 16th level power this is a low save Fort DC (14+Cha). Even with an 18 Cha a DC 18 is something even a 16th level Wizard could make most of the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes it was taken directly from the Pyro class. It allows for an AoE effect without having to use one of the now even more limited known powers (11) on an AoE power versus a utility power. However, I had thought of adding a form of power manipulation ability but it seemed to be hitting too close into the Wilder’s class abilities.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How is this?</p><p><strong>Metamorphosis (Ps):</strong> At 20th level, a primalist learns to take the shape of creature of the primal energy planes and gains the <em>greater metamorphosis</em> power as a known power. This power is in addition to any powers the primalist learns by advancing levels. In all respects this power acts as described, except that the primalist may only take the form of an elemental.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Overall in my opinion I would prefer to find better options than Inundation and Primal Fury. I am thinking of changing things by dropping these 2 abilities, swapping Primal Transport to 12th level and Improved Adaptation to 10th level , then moving Greater Adaptation to 18th level, and then finding a new power for 16th level.</p><p></p><p>Thoughts?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khaalis, post: 1588904, member: 2167"] First – thanks for all the comments. I will be tweaking and changing for a second draft, and hope the comments will be as prolific. BTW Kyamsil… I assume you dislike the Pyro as it is written? Now to the replies… That was the basic idea, but to expand it into a full psionic class that accesses all of the primal kinetic energies. Also note that this would replace the Pyro similar to making the Soulknife into a full class rather than a PrC. * BAB = Same as Wilder, Pyro, PsyWar, and Soulknife. Only the Psion has Bad BAB. * D6 HD = Better than Psion; Equal to Wilder; Worse than PsyWar, Soulknife and Pyro. * # of Saves = Same as Pyro, Soulknife; makes more sense for a primalist * Skill Points = Same as Wilder and Soulknife (House Rule – we give all classes min. 4+, but its negotiable for the class design) As a comparison to the Psychic Warrior, most Psi classes are better. They are primarily fighters with a tiny bit of Psi power. Basically the bards of psionics. 90% of all Psychic Warriors will likely by Pyros or MC Soulknives. I had thought about this and wavered on the line. I was afraid of making them too much like the Wilder by making the Charisma based. I agree that it does make more sense though, especially considering the non-lawful aspect of the class. Changed. I wasn’t sure on this one. Again I was trying to shy away from making them too much like a Wilder, but I also wanted them to have little bit more flexibility in their powers, but less power (thus ½ the Power Points). However, considering the balance factors, I guess this class needs to be more like the wilder, just substituting their Kinetic Powers for the Wilder powers. However, with that said – should they get Wilder Power Points or remain at the Half PP progression? Current change is 1 off from the Wilder so that new powers are learned on levels they Don’t get a class ability. Still end up with only 11 powers as the Wilder. Within the “Energy” psionic powers this is correct. There are acid psionic powers however, and I was trying to get a full elemental feel to their abilities. Granted the acidic powers are Metabolic rather than kinetic, I will have to concede and remove the earth/acid aspect. Ok, a few comments. The Primalist weapon is [b]only[/b] better than a Soulkife weapon in that they can choose any light or single-handed simple or martial weapon instead of just a Short Sword. Keep in mind that a Soulkife’s blade is stackable with all benefits as well. Skn’s weapons also gain the following that primalist doesn’t: * Skn weapon improves with level. * Skn weapon can overcome [i]Null Psion Fields[/i] and [i]Dispelling[/i]. As to DR. This could be a valid point. Sonic does have few resistances. However, for the primalist the weapon must be an energy weapon. Another issue to consider is that ‘Psionic Weapon’ also deals damage that has almost no resistance. I do however, like the idea of choosing the energy type at levels. [i]“At 1st level the primalist can choose one energy type to manifest from cold, electricity or fire. At 5th and 10th level they may choose another energy type that they may manifest at will from cold, electricity or fire. At 15th level the primalist also gains the sonic energy type as a manifestation energy choice.“[/i] As to weapon type. I wanted the class to be more individualistic and customizable. Soulknives get Short Swords only, and Pyro’s get Whip only. I wanted to have a class that got to choose their weapon type. If you want to have a dwarven primalist using a dwarven war axe or an elven primalist with a rapier, etc. you could. This also makes issues of resizing easy as it follows the standard rules for the weapon type. Activation cost. The only issue with this is that neither the Pyro nor the Soulknife pay a cost for creating their weapons. ‘Psionic Weapon’ requires expending focus but does a lot more damage, and expending focus can be easily overcome with the Hustle and ‘Psionic Meditation’ combo. Based From: Granted this is against a single element. The issue is that the primalist should be resistant to all kinetic energy, not just one or two. How about the following? Adaptation (2nd): +4 to all saves vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. Improved (12th): As adaptation + ER 5 vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. Greater (20th): As improved but increase to ER 10 vs. cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. As mentioned Primal Bolt = Bolt of Fire. As mentioned its part of the Pyro class. However Pyro doesn’t have its own PP’s and Powers Known, but it is assumed that the Pyro is an existing Psionic Class due to its entry requirements. Thus I have to assume it is not as unbalanced as Kyamsil thinks. Especially with the much reduced number of known powers, this may be the primary ranged offense for the class. As to damage/power level, compare to “Energy Bolt”. Primal Bolt has ½ the range, is a ranged touch attack effecting only 1 target rather than an AoE effecting all within the 120’ line of the bolt. Damage is 1d6/2 levels (max 10d6 at 20th) whereas Energy Bolt does 5d6 base + bonuses based on energy type and can be increased by 1d6 per PP spent (no limit) and also increases save DC dramatically. For sonic the following additional statement: [i]“A bolt of sonic energy deals –1 point of damage per die but ignores an object’s hardness”[/i] as per ‘Energy Bolt’. Expending focus would only result in a possible slowdown in use of the ability, defeated by the ‘Psionic Meditation’ and Hustle combination. Compared to the Pyro’s ‘Bolt of Fire’ or the Soulknife’s thrown blade , I don’t see it as entirely necessary. This ability is directly from the Pyro but with the choice of energy type instead of only Fire. Again, this is directly from the Pyro’s Nimbus ability. The power also grants damage reduction 5/magic but less ‘retort’ damage than ‘Energy Retort’. Note that I also DROPPED the +4 Charisma score boost from this ability. Also with the much severely reduced number of known powers available to the class, it makes this an even more useful ability. This was added using the basic ability of designed for the Elocator to replace the “Firewalk” of the Pyro and to give a more “elementalist” aspect to the class as well as a non-combat/utility ability. It could be replaced with the Firewalk ability again instead, but I preferred the idea of simply adding to related but “external” psionic powers to their known power list and making them spend the power points for them. This ability is straight from the Pyro, though delayed to 16th level and with more flavor than just heat. Keep in mind for a 16th level power this is a low save Fort DC (14+Cha). Even with an 18 Cha a DC 18 is something even a 16th level Wizard could make most of the time. Yes it was taken directly from the Pyro class. It allows for an AoE effect without having to use one of the now even more limited known powers (11) on an AoE power versus a utility power. However, I had thought of adding a form of power manipulation ability but it seemed to be hitting too close into the Wilder’s class abilities. How is this? [b]Metamorphosis (Ps):[/b] At 20th level, a primalist learns to take the shape of creature of the primal energy planes and gains the [i]greater metamorphosis[/i] power as a known power. This power is in addition to any powers the primalist learns by advancing levels. In all respects this power acts as described, except that the primalist may only take the form of an elemental. Overall in my opinion I would prefer to find better options than Inundation and Primal Fury. I am thinking of changing things by dropping these 2 abilities, swapping Primal Transport to 12th level and Improved Adaptation to 10th level , then moving Greater Adaptation to 18th level, and then finding a new power for 16th level. Thoughts? [/QUOTE]
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