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<blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 5991493" data-attributes="member: 6680772"><p>Reading through the character generation, I started getting a grim feeling, as it felt a lot like 3e/4e. Lots of fiddly bits, lots of extra-options that didn't have an old-school-quick-generation feel, even though I'm fine with what they do mechanically. I began to doubt that my wish for quick-n-easy, non-system-mastery character generation had been designed out of the game.</p><p> </p><p>But then I went ahead and created a fighter, just to see what it was like. In the end it all fit easily on a single page of a spiral notebook, bonuses were quickly and easily tallied, and it took me 20 minutes. And that was with juggling a bunch of separate pdfs on a mouseless laptop, so I figure with an easy to handle book to flip through, it'd be even faster. I forewent Backgrounds and Specialties and even Fighting Styles, just to see what the barest bones fighter looked like. And I was happy.</p><p> </p><p>I went ahead and threw on a Background, Specialty, and Fighting Manuever, and it was still easy and painless, and the extra-time would probably have been made up by using the equipment packages included in the fighting styles.</p><p> </p><p>As far as chargen goes, I'm a happy camper.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I think you can still make them pretty optional. Just ignore the wizard's bonus trained skill, and give the rogue the thiefly skills he had in the older editions. With nobody else having skills, just having them accomplish the same thing as Skill Mastery does in a game that does have skills for everyone: it gives the thief a Skills class feature. Of course, a +3 right off the bat does give you little room to go for the thief to level up, so I do think they should give some thought to a rogue skill module for games that doesn't use skills.</p><p> </p><p>If I wanted to run an old-style game without non-thief skills using these mechanics, I'd split Find and Remove Traps, add a separate climbing skill, and give the Rogue these skills at +1.</p><p>Climbing (Str)</p><p>Find Traps (Int)</p><p>Open Locks (Dex)</p><p>Remove Traps (Dex)</p><p>Sleight of Hand (Dex)</p><p>Stealth (Dex)</p><p> </p><p>I'd bump up the DC on opening normal locks to Very Hard, elaborate locks to Formidable, and dwarven locks to Nearly Impossible. Then with each level the Rogue would get another +1 they could put into any one of their skills. This basically recreates 2e style Thieves' Skills without making Rogues virtually guaranteed to succeed.</p><p> </p><p>None of the above is a defense of D&DN, btw. Just an off-the-cuff houserule after your post inspired me to think about how I might tweak the game to provide a mechanically unified TSR-D&D experience...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Iosue, post: 5991493, member: 6680772"] Reading through the character generation, I started getting a grim feeling, as it felt a lot like 3e/4e. Lots of fiddly bits, lots of extra-options that didn't have an old-school-quick-generation feel, even though I'm fine with what they do mechanically. I began to doubt that my wish for quick-n-easy, non-system-mastery character generation had been designed out of the game. But then I went ahead and created a fighter, just to see what it was like. In the end it all fit easily on a single page of a spiral notebook, bonuses were quickly and easily tallied, and it took me 20 minutes. And that was with juggling a bunch of separate pdfs on a mouseless laptop, so I figure with an easy to handle book to flip through, it'd be even faster. I forewent Backgrounds and Specialties and even Fighting Styles, just to see what the barest bones fighter looked like. And I was happy. I went ahead and threw on a Background, Specialty, and Fighting Manuever, and it was still easy and painless, and the extra-time would probably have been made up by using the equipment packages included in the fighting styles. As far as chargen goes, I'm a happy camper. I think you can still make them pretty optional. Just ignore the wizard's bonus trained skill, and give the rogue the thiefly skills he had in the older editions. With nobody else having skills, just having them accomplish the same thing as Skill Mastery does in a game that does have skills for everyone: it gives the thief a Skills class feature. Of course, a +3 right off the bat does give you little room to go for the thief to level up, so I do think they should give some thought to a rogue skill module for games that doesn't use skills. If I wanted to run an old-style game without non-thief skills using these mechanics, I'd split Find and Remove Traps, add a separate climbing skill, and give the Rogue these skills at +1. Climbing (Str) Find Traps (Int) Open Locks (Dex) Remove Traps (Dex) Sleight of Hand (Dex) Stealth (Dex) I'd bump up the DC on opening normal locks to Very Hard, elaborate locks to Formidable, and dwarven locks to Nearly Impossible. Then with each level the Rogue would get another +1 they could put into any one of their skills. This basically recreates 2e style Thieves' Skills without making Rogues virtually guaranteed to succeed. None of the above is a defense of D&DN, btw. Just an off-the-cuff houserule after your post inspired me to think about how I might tweak the game to provide a mechanically unified TSR-D&D experience... [/QUOTE]
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