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<blockquote data-quote="Arravis" data-source="post: 525101" data-attributes="member: 327"><p>Well, I'm Neebo's player and the other Co-DM, so I thought I'd make a few comments as well...</p><p></p><p>I think Patrick is an excellent DM, but as anyone who is doing something they aren't experienced at, they tend to be overly self-critical. He handles the party well and his games have always been fun, which is what's important. I think he's done a heck of a job, so don't be too hard on yourself!</p><p></p><p>I suspect one of the issues he's having is that things are simply not going according to the plans he's made. I make my plots in one of two ways; as a loose storyline that allows a lot of wiggle room for the players to pick up and drop the plot as they wish; or as a very solid and tight storyline that doesn't railroad them, but events are happening around them in a timed and planned manner. In our Endless Desert campaign (our no-magic/no-psionics game that Patrick mentioned above), I tend to go with the looser style of storytelling. It might not look that way to the players, cause as a DM I rely on my ability to bluff quite a bit <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />. I try to make everything seemed planned and thought out... act 100% certain when you're only 51% certain.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, it doesn't bother me too much when the players go off track a bit, cause I can bring them back on course later on. How you go about doing that though, is hard to explain, maybe it's just simply experience. I know that if I have one of them hear a mysterious noise to the east, they might not investigate it... but if an hour later I add a bright flash of light coming from the eastern horizon, which might draw them to it. I also tend to add a lot of red herrings in my game, so I'm sure that doesn't help Patrick when it comes to figuring out what I'm doing when I'm DM'ng... hehe. Anyway, I'm a firm believer that an echo of a thing will draw more curiosity then a completely obvious plot device.</p><p></p><p>On the Luula issue, I agree that he needs to be harsher with her when it comes to out of character info and in-character info. I'm guessing that since Patrick is still mastering all the rules of 3rd ed, that he's not completely comfortable with modifying NPC's and monsters. If one of the players peeks at my encounter, I'll change it... giving a giant intelligent spider 5 levels in rouge is always a nasty thing <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />.</p><p></p><p>On the issue of players not properly portraying desert nomads and such, if I feel a player isn't playing their characters properly, I will mention it to them. You can't force players to role-play in one particular way or another, but you can give them positive and negative stimulus for it. If they are RP'ng properly, award them for it... the fates are simply nicer to them. Is it "unrealistic"... yes, but so what <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />. If the character isn't following what you would deem acceptable behavior, punish them for it... start giving out XP penalties. I wouldn't necessarily say it's for "bad role-playing", cause that might hurt people's feelings a bit, but simply for being out of tune with the desert.</p><p></p><p>As far as the party picking up levels in rogue, I don't have a big issue with that. The campaign we're in relies very much on skills and less on combat ability, so I'm not surprised to see that. I don't see the party turning evil or betraying each other any time soon as well, but that's simply my impression. Perhaps there's something to what Patrick says, but I don't see it. (Poison weapons are common in subsistence cultures, so it doesn't seem odd that they would use it).</p><p></p><p>Now, unto the burning oasis... I'll say this much, Patrick didn't give us a lot of options on this one. We needed water and we needed access to the oasis for several days (we were waiting for another group to meet up with us there). So the nasty vines that surrounded the place made it entirely inhospitable and the beetles didn't help. I know that Patrick probably saw other "solutions" to the issue, but as a player I didn't see many (mind you, burning the place down wasn't my idea <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />).</p><p></p><p>-Arravis</p><p>-Neebo</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arravis, post: 525101, member: 327"] Well, I'm Neebo's player and the other Co-DM, so I thought I'd make a few comments as well... I think Patrick is an excellent DM, but as anyone who is doing something they aren't experienced at, they tend to be overly self-critical. He handles the party well and his games have always been fun, which is what's important. I think he's done a heck of a job, so don't be too hard on yourself! I suspect one of the issues he's having is that things are simply not going according to the plans he's made. I make my plots in one of two ways; as a loose storyline that allows a lot of wiggle room for the players to pick up and drop the plot as they wish; or as a very solid and tight storyline that doesn't railroad them, but events are happening around them in a timed and planned manner. In our Endless Desert campaign (our no-magic/no-psionics game that Patrick mentioned above), I tend to go with the looser style of storytelling. It might not look that way to the players, cause as a DM I rely on my ability to bluff quite a bit :). I try to make everything seemed planned and thought out... act 100% certain when you're only 51% certain. Anyway, it doesn't bother me too much when the players go off track a bit, cause I can bring them back on course later on. How you go about doing that though, is hard to explain, maybe it's just simply experience. I know that if I have one of them hear a mysterious noise to the east, they might not investigate it... but if an hour later I add a bright flash of light coming from the eastern horizon, which might draw them to it. I also tend to add a lot of red herrings in my game, so I'm sure that doesn't help Patrick when it comes to figuring out what I'm doing when I'm DM'ng... hehe. Anyway, I'm a firm believer that an echo of a thing will draw more curiosity then a completely obvious plot device. On the Luula issue, I agree that he needs to be harsher with her when it comes to out of character info and in-character info. I'm guessing that since Patrick is still mastering all the rules of 3rd ed, that he's not completely comfortable with modifying NPC's and monsters. If one of the players peeks at my encounter, I'll change it... giving a giant intelligent spider 5 levels in rouge is always a nasty thing ;). On the issue of players not properly portraying desert nomads and such, if I feel a player isn't playing their characters properly, I will mention it to them. You can't force players to role-play in one particular way or another, but you can give them positive and negative stimulus for it. If they are RP'ng properly, award them for it... the fates are simply nicer to them. Is it "unrealistic"... yes, but so what :). If the character isn't following what you would deem acceptable behavior, punish them for it... start giving out XP penalties. I wouldn't necessarily say it's for "bad role-playing", cause that might hurt people's feelings a bit, but simply for being out of tune with the desert. As far as the party picking up levels in rogue, I don't have a big issue with that. The campaign we're in relies very much on skills and less on combat ability, so I'm not surprised to see that. I don't see the party turning evil or betraying each other any time soon as well, but that's simply my impression. Perhaps there's something to what Patrick says, but I don't see it. (Poison weapons are common in subsistence cultures, so it doesn't seem odd that they would use it). Now, unto the burning oasis... I'll say this much, Patrick didn't give us a lot of options on this one. We needed water and we needed access to the oasis for several days (we were waiting for another group to meet up with us there). So the nasty vines that surrounded the place made it entirely inhospitable and the beetles didn't help. I know that Patrick probably saw other "solutions" to the issue, but as a player I didn't see many (mind you, burning the place down wasn't my idea :P). -Arravis -Neebo [/QUOTE]
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