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New Legend and Lore is up! Magic Systems as DM Modules
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6025524" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>OK. This is so far from my own experience that I'll just have to take your word for it.</p><p></p><p>I agree with this. But I don't quite see how this fits with what I've quoted above. If these are just resource accounting, why does it make 4e classes too similar that they all have the same structure? The difference is the actual content of the powers, I think.</p><p></p><p>This is also very foreign to my experience. I'm not familiar with any such fence in any RPG I play - given that fictional positioning interacting with mechanics is of the essence of an RPG, in my view.</p><p></p><p>The question I'm interested in is whether the fiction is intended to be shared in the imagination of the particiants indendent of the mechanics - which is often the case in a certain style of illusionist play - or not. What I mean is, if the fiction says that a fall is likely to be fatal, but in fact the typical PC has enough hit points to take the fall and walk away still conscious, then I think there is a gap between fiction and mechanics that I'm not a big fan of. (2nd ed AD&D, in particular, has a tendency to produce this sort of mechanics-independent stipulated fiction). The result is that the players, rather than being able to engage the action resolution mechanics hard in order to shape the fiction, are expected to moderate their use of the action resolution mechanics in order to comply with the stipulated fiction. (Again, 2nd ed AD&D in particular has a lot of this sort of stuff associated with it - players "ought not to be munchkins", "ought not to metagame", etc.)</p><p></p><p>If the fiction says that a wizard is scholarly, but nothing in the mechanics stops me from playing my wizard as a know-it-all dilletante with some innate talent and intuition, then the fiction is, for me, just spinning idle.</p><p></p><p>Yes. That was something I pointed out in my post.</p><p></p><p>I'm pretty sure that Mearls is canvassing that this may not be the case in D&Dnext. As I said in my post you quoted, when people complain about Vancian wizards, they are typically saying that they don't want to have to memorise. They're not just saying that they want to swap slots-based memorisation for points-based memorisation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6025524, member: 42582"] OK. This is so far from my own experience that I'll just have to take your word for it. I agree with this. But I don't quite see how this fits with what I've quoted above. If these are just resource accounting, why does it make 4e classes too similar that they all have the same structure? The difference is the actual content of the powers, I think. This is also very foreign to my experience. I'm not familiar with any such fence in any RPG I play - given that fictional positioning interacting with mechanics is of the essence of an RPG, in my view. The question I'm interested in is whether the fiction is intended to be shared in the imagination of the particiants indendent of the mechanics - which is often the case in a certain style of illusionist play - or not. What I mean is, if the fiction says that a fall is likely to be fatal, but in fact the typical PC has enough hit points to take the fall and walk away still conscious, then I think there is a gap between fiction and mechanics that I'm not a big fan of. (2nd ed AD&D, in particular, has a tendency to produce this sort of mechanics-independent stipulated fiction). The result is that the players, rather than being able to engage the action resolution mechanics hard in order to shape the fiction, are expected to moderate their use of the action resolution mechanics in order to comply with the stipulated fiction. (Again, 2nd ed AD&D in particular has a lot of this sort of stuff associated with it - players "ought not to be munchkins", "ought not to metagame", etc.) If the fiction says that a wizard is scholarly, but nothing in the mechanics stops me from playing my wizard as a know-it-all dilletante with some innate talent and intuition, then the fiction is, for me, just spinning idle. Yes. That was something I pointed out in my post. I'm pretty sure that Mearls is canvassing that this may not be the case in D&Dnext. As I said in my post you quoted, when people complain about Vancian wizards, they are typically saying that they don't want to have to memorise. They're not just saying that they want to swap slots-based memorisation for points-based memorisation. [/QUOTE]
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