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New Legend and Lore is up! Magic Systems as DM Modules
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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6025551" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>I was giving a different example than from the 5e material so far, you'll note that I gave wizards 9th level, sorcerers 7th and warlocks 5th. None of which has actually been done with the playtest material to date. So I suggest you go back and reread that part of my post. I was giving a hypothetical.</p><p></p><p></p><p>First, I agree fighters don't need CS. I'm in the camp that dislikes that option, same with rogue's skill mastery. I think there are certainly lines that should be explored about giving both of these classes more options and power but I don't feel the playtest has gotten anywhere near what I'd like to see for either of these classes or either of their abilities.</p><p></p><p>Second, I'm not entirely clear what you mean by "each class has its own quirks". I assume you mean that fighters have CS, rogues have sneak attack; therefore wizards, sorcerers and warlocks should be completely different combat styles? If so I disagree, they haven't ALWAYS been this way. In fact this relates closely to the 4e bits I'll bring up later.</p><p></p><p>Third, in my examples before I have said vancian. When I did I meant it in the way of vancian = spellslots, not necessarily vancian = memorization. I completely agree that certain classes would be ruined by forced memorization. With my way not even all wizards would require that, but I think that the magic systems and WotC material are far from making this second part a reality.</p><p></p><p>Fourth, I would certainly say, regardless of how they cast their spells, if you want sorcerers to gain claws and scales that is perfectly feasible. For me sorcerers are all about inner magic and spontaneous casting. So, I would be all for inner magic and spontaneous casting... with some extra material to make their grandpappy be a dragon so they now have scales, a breath weapon and claws. How they cast their spells (AEDU, spell-slots, w/e) have nothing to do with that.</p><p></p><p>I think they need to nail what a class is without their abilities to figure out what their abilities should be. It is entirely possible I'd be more in favour of a warlord type fighter than the CS fighter we have now, if they came at it from the proper vantage. Again, I don't see that happening with their goal of 'feel of each edition' but it is what I would like to see.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I certainly agree with the bulk of your post.</p><p>I just wanted to add that its more like telling people that they have to choose the colours for their sports team, while giving them three choices and ensuring them the players, playstyles and maneuvers are going to remain the same. I could care less if my team (normally green and gold) came out parading in pink and lilac as long as they kept bashing skulls on the field.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I do!! OOh! Me! I dislike encounter powers, as well as ALL current flavour of the warlocks. I dislike using spellpoints and think the sorcerer's flavour is just on the wrong class. Said so as soon as I read the material and it hasn't changed since playtesting it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, it does. That should be the idea. If you had the same everything but a different way of casting regardless of magic system then something went wrong (imo). A different spellstyle should give you just that. If I have vancian (again, spell slots not necessarily memorization) and you have AEDU then they should play differently. They should have different skills and certainly different benefits and pitfalls.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 6025551, member: 95493"] I was giving a different example than from the 5e material so far, you'll note that I gave wizards 9th level, sorcerers 7th and warlocks 5th. None of which has actually been done with the playtest material to date. So I suggest you go back and reread that part of my post. I was giving a hypothetical. First, I agree fighters don't need CS. I'm in the camp that dislikes that option, same with rogue's skill mastery. I think there are certainly lines that should be explored about giving both of these classes more options and power but I don't feel the playtest has gotten anywhere near what I'd like to see for either of these classes or either of their abilities. Second, I'm not entirely clear what you mean by "each class has its own quirks". I assume you mean that fighters have CS, rogues have sneak attack; therefore wizards, sorcerers and warlocks should be completely different combat styles? If so I disagree, they haven't ALWAYS been this way. In fact this relates closely to the 4e bits I'll bring up later. Third, in my examples before I have said vancian. When I did I meant it in the way of vancian = spellslots, not necessarily vancian = memorization. I completely agree that certain classes would be ruined by forced memorization. With my way not even all wizards would require that, but I think that the magic systems and WotC material are far from making this second part a reality. Fourth, I would certainly say, regardless of how they cast their spells, if you want sorcerers to gain claws and scales that is perfectly feasible. For me sorcerers are all about inner magic and spontaneous casting. So, I would be all for inner magic and spontaneous casting... with some extra material to make their grandpappy be a dragon so they now have scales, a breath weapon and claws. How they cast their spells (AEDU, spell-slots, w/e) have nothing to do with that. I think they need to nail what a class is without their abilities to figure out what their abilities should be. It is entirely possible I'd be more in favour of a warlord type fighter than the CS fighter we have now, if they came at it from the proper vantage. Again, I don't see that happening with their goal of 'feel of each edition' but it is what I would like to see. I certainly agree with the bulk of your post. I just wanted to add that its more like telling people that they have to choose the colours for their sports team, while giving them three choices and ensuring them the players, playstyles and maneuvers are going to remain the same. I could care less if my team (normally green and gold) came out parading in pink and lilac as long as they kept bashing skulls on the field. I do!! OOh! Me! I dislike encounter powers, as well as ALL current flavour of the warlocks. I dislike using spellpoints and think the sorcerer's flavour is just on the wrong class. Said so as soon as I read the material and it hasn't changed since playtesting it. Of course, it does. That should be the idea. If you had the same everything but a different way of casting regardless of magic system then something went wrong (imo). A different spellstyle should give you just that. If I have vancian (again, spell slots not necessarily memorization) and you have AEDU then they should play differently. They should have different skills and certainly different benefits and pitfalls. [/QUOTE]
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