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New Legend and Lore is up! Magic Systems as DM Modules
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<blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 6025732" data-attributes="member: 54843"><p>Okay, two points. First, even having different primary spellcasters use different spell levels would make the various spellcasting systems much more difficult to present. Rather than having one chart for how many Vancian memorized spells per day a spellcaster gets at each level, you'd need a different chart for classes with 5, 7, and 9 levels of spells. (Same for distribution of spell points, etc.)</p><p></p><p>Second, having five or seven levels of spells wouldn't actually change the basic conceits of wizard-style spells: spells must have a static power level tied to their level. In 5e, the Fireball spell does the same damage whether you cast it at level 5 or at level 20. By forcing every spellcasting class to fit this mold (in the name of "modularity"), you're actually closing off the very common archetype of a spellcaster who uses a limited number of spells but gets more powerful with them as he/she progresses. The warlock works this way in the playtest and in 3.5e: you're casting Eldritch Blast at level 1 and at level 20, but it gets much more powerful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>IMHO that mode fo thinking leads to the PHB as a Rules Compendium: here is a list of cool mechanics we thought up, mix and match them to make your preferred character. Now we "advanced" players tend to enjoy stuff like that - I personally love homebrewing - but there's a lot to be said for having The Pros design classes all the way through and make them as seamless and elegant as possible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorcerers and warlocks only came into existence as 3.x alternates to prepared Vancian spellcasting. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry - do you mean here that memorization should or shouldn't be required for the wizard class? My assumption from the L&L article was that non-preparation would be an option as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To be clearer, in the current playtest the sorcerer automatically grows scales and gains an elemental resistance when he has used 10 willpower (spell points). This specific effect - automatically transform the sorcerer when he's used a chunk of his magical power for the day - would be tough to translate to a spontaneous Vancian system. (Does it trigger when he casts his first level 3 spell of the day? When he casts all his level 2 spells?)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They already tried this in the abstract a while back with L&L columns on class concepts. We got lots of stuff like "the fighter is good at fighting" and "the paladin hates evii," which IMHO doesn't get you very far WITHOUT some specific mechanics to tie it to. That's the thing: the mechanical execution is closely tied to the feel of the class.</p><p></p><p>To take a 4e example: if I asked you what the fighter is, you wouldn't say, "He's a guy who marks his enemies so he gets free attacks on them if they attack someone else." But in thinking through the martial defender concept and how it would play out, they came up with marking mechanics - which I believe are actually quite good at making the player "feel" like a defender.</p><p></p><p>Spellcasting mechanics seem the same to me. Want the wizard to be a nerdy guy who gets incredible power through careful study and preparation? Make preparation a key part of playing the class effectively. Want the warlock to be a guy who makes a deal to borrow magical power but at a deep personal cost? Well, he's not going to need to study like the wizard, and he's not going to drain all his energy in casting - after all, the whole point is that his magic is supposed to come "easy!" Give him encounter powers instead but make him stay in close magical contact with his patron. The mechanics reinforce the archetype and spur the player to approach situations like his character would.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ZombieRoboNinja, post: 6025732, member: 54843"] Okay, two points. First, even having different primary spellcasters use different spell levels would make the various spellcasting systems much more difficult to present. Rather than having one chart for how many Vancian memorized spells per day a spellcaster gets at each level, you'd need a different chart for classes with 5, 7, and 9 levels of spells. (Same for distribution of spell points, etc.) Second, having five or seven levels of spells wouldn't actually change the basic conceits of wizard-style spells: spells must have a static power level tied to their level. In 5e, the Fireball spell does the same damage whether you cast it at level 5 or at level 20. By forcing every spellcasting class to fit this mold (in the name of "modularity"), you're actually closing off the very common archetype of a spellcaster who uses a limited number of spells but gets more powerful with them as he/she progresses. The warlock works this way in the playtest and in 3.5e: you're casting Eldritch Blast at level 1 and at level 20, but it gets much more powerful. IMHO that mode fo thinking leads to the PHB as a Rules Compendium: here is a list of cool mechanics we thought up, mix and match them to make your preferred character. Now we "advanced" players tend to enjoy stuff like that - I personally love homebrewing - but there's a lot to be said for having The Pros design classes all the way through and make them as seamless and elegant as possible. Sorcerers and warlocks only came into existence as 3.x alternates to prepared Vancian spellcasting. I'm sorry - do you mean here that memorization should or shouldn't be required for the wizard class? My assumption from the L&L article was that non-preparation would be an option as well. To be clearer, in the current playtest the sorcerer automatically grows scales and gains an elemental resistance when he has used 10 willpower (spell points). This specific effect - automatically transform the sorcerer when he's used a chunk of his magical power for the day - would be tough to translate to a spontaneous Vancian system. (Does it trigger when he casts his first level 3 spell of the day? When he casts all his level 2 spells?) They already tried this in the abstract a while back with L&L columns on class concepts. We got lots of stuff like "the fighter is good at fighting" and "the paladin hates evii," which IMHO doesn't get you very far WITHOUT some specific mechanics to tie it to. That's the thing: the mechanical execution is closely tied to the feel of the class. To take a 4e example: if I asked you what the fighter is, you wouldn't say, "He's a guy who marks his enemies so he gets free attacks on them if they attack someone else." But in thinking through the martial defender concept and how it would play out, they came up with marking mechanics - which I believe are actually quite good at making the player "feel" like a defender. Spellcasting mechanics seem the same to me. Want the wizard to be a nerdy guy who gets incredible power through careful study and preparation? Make preparation a key part of playing the class effectively. Want the warlock to be a guy who makes a deal to borrow magical power but at a deep personal cost? Well, he's not going to need to study like the wizard, and he's not going to drain all his energy in casting - after all, the whole point is that his magic is supposed to come "easy!" Give him encounter powers instead but make him stay in close magical contact with his patron. The mechanics reinforce the archetype and spur the player to approach situations like his character would. [/QUOTE]
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