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New RPG Company Casting All Women for Genesys
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<blockquote data-quote="TanithT" data-source="post: 5945556" data-attributes="member: 87695"><p>Why do you refer to adult women as "girls", or as "hot gamer chicks"? If you really believe that what you are presenting isn't about objectifying, judging, and making women feel like they are not accepted as normal participants in the hobby, then why not use more respectful language? </p><p></p><p>I think it's possible that you imagine you're trying to be respectful of women by offering them 'powerful' character roles, but please consider your language and presentation. You are essentially soliciting female pinup models and saying, "Look, girl gamers can be sexually marketable commodities too, they're not just ugly nerds, they can be hot sex objects!"</p><p></p><p>Really not seeing the problem with this?</p><p></p><p>See, part of the reason I am a nerd is that I say a great big F-U to media stereotypes of how women should act and dress and be, yaknow, marketable sex commodities. I reject all that stuff because I like to play with snakes and crocodiles in the mud, I like to lift weights and kick ass, I like to dress for comfort rather than style, I like to play D&D and I don't care who knows it, and I feel no need whatsoever to take off my big nerdy glasses or dumb my intelligence down so I can look cuter for the boys. Don't like me as I am, because I have better ways to spend my time than obsessively grooming myself for your visual pleasure? Move on; it's not my problem. Now you're trying to tell me that yes, indeed I *can* successfully be a marketable sex commodity, a gorgeous hot gamer chick?</p><p></p><p>Uh, dude, no, you're missing the point. Of course I <strong>can</strong> put on uncomfortable clothes and smile and parade myself in front of a camera. But I made the choice a very long time ago not to submit to being judged for my worth as a sex commodity. That's why I'm a nerd. Not because I lack social skills, or because I'm unattractive, but because I don't buy into the 'looks-ist' garbage that tells women that they have no worth unless they can succeed in the media-driven rat race to be judged on their looks rather than on their accomplishments.</p><p></p><p>What you're saying is that the stereotype is a valid one - women really do only have worth that is based on their looks - and you're offering folks who have been historically unsuccessful in playing that particular game a chance to get back into it and win. This is the game a lot of us nerds opted out of on purpose, <strong>because we think the game itself is seriously effed up and we don't want to play</strong>. No, we don't want back in, and we sure as hell don't want it taking over our gaming tables.</p><p></p><p>Regardless of your intent, this meme perpetuates the idea that there isn't any other way for a woman to be viewed except on her marketability as a sex commodity. The spectrum of what a woman can be doesn't just go from "unattractive nerd" to "porn star". Showing that gamer women can indeed be porn stars - and calling them "girls" and "chicks" while you're at it - does absolutely nothing to, as you say, 'break the stereotype'. It just perpetuates some equally ugly ones at the other end of the same spectrum. It doesn't teach your gamer community in general to be accepting or respectful of women as normal human beings who can just be gamers like anyone else. </p><p></p><p>Probably the bigger problem is how women are going to feel about the message you are sending with your language. Are some of them going to like the fact that there are powerful, sexy female characters? Absolutely. Are many of them going to like the fact that you are referring to these supposedly intelligent, respected, powerful women as "girls" and "hot chicks"? Dunno about that so much. </p><p></p><p>Are <em>any</em> of us going to appreciate sitting down to a gaming table and being called "girl" and "chick" by the other gamers because your system teaches that language and that way of viewing and interacting with women? Not a chance in Gehenna, bub. </p><p></p><p>As a female gamer, I feel marginalized enough. As a female at all, I already live in an environment of media bombardment that says I am worth nothing if I am not a marketable sex commodity. I very much do not need more of this from my own kind. If I sit down at a gaming table, I expect to be seen as a gamer - as a human being, as an ordinary person who just wants to play like everyone else. </p><p></p><p>Bottom line, I do not want my gaming experience to look like this. I do not want to be objectified by men whose idea of what women are like and how they should see us and treat us comes from people who refer to us in demeaning terms and use us as marketing commodities. Tone down the 'hot chick' objectification crap and show a little more respect for the things you say you appreciate in women who game, and maybe we'll actually believe you. Even the men have been reacting pretty negatively and angrily here, so it may be time to seriously re-think your sensitivity level over in Marketing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TanithT, post: 5945556, member: 87695"] Why do you refer to adult women as "girls", or as "hot gamer chicks"? If you really believe that what you are presenting isn't about objectifying, judging, and making women feel like they are not accepted as normal participants in the hobby, then why not use more respectful language? I think it's possible that you imagine you're trying to be respectful of women by offering them 'powerful' character roles, but please consider your language and presentation. You are essentially soliciting female pinup models and saying, "Look, girl gamers can be sexually marketable commodities too, they're not just ugly nerds, they can be hot sex objects!" Really not seeing the problem with this? See, part of the reason I am a nerd is that I say a great big F-U to media stereotypes of how women should act and dress and be, yaknow, marketable sex commodities. I reject all that stuff because I like to play with snakes and crocodiles in the mud, I like to lift weights and kick ass, I like to dress for comfort rather than style, I like to play D&D and I don't care who knows it, and I feel no need whatsoever to take off my big nerdy glasses or dumb my intelligence down so I can look cuter for the boys. Don't like me as I am, because I have better ways to spend my time than obsessively grooming myself for your visual pleasure? Move on; it's not my problem. Now you're trying to tell me that yes, indeed I *can* successfully be a marketable sex commodity, a gorgeous hot gamer chick? Uh, dude, no, you're missing the point. Of course I [B]can[/B] put on uncomfortable clothes and smile and parade myself in front of a camera. But I made the choice a very long time ago not to submit to being judged for my worth as a sex commodity. That's why I'm a nerd. Not because I lack social skills, or because I'm unattractive, but because I don't buy into the 'looks-ist' garbage that tells women that they have no worth unless they can succeed in the media-driven rat race to be judged on their looks rather than on their accomplishments. What you're saying is that the stereotype is a valid one - women really do only have worth that is based on their looks - and you're offering folks who have been historically unsuccessful in playing that particular game a chance to get back into it and win. This is the game a lot of us nerds opted out of on purpose, [B]because we think the game itself is seriously effed up and we don't want to play[/B]. No, we don't want back in, and we sure as hell don't want it taking over our gaming tables. Regardless of your intent, this meme perpetuates the idea that there isn't any other way for a woman to be viewed except on her marketability as a sex commodity. The spectrum of what a woman can be doesn't just go from "unattractive nerd" to "porn star". Showing that gamer women can indeed be porn stars - and calling them "girls" and "chicks" while you're at it - does absolutely nothing to, as you say, 'break the stereotype'. It just perpetuates some equally ugly ones at the other end of the same spectrum. It doesn't teach your gamer community in general to be accepting or respectful of women as normal human beings who can just be gamers like anyone else. Probably the bigger problem is how women are going to feel about the message you are sending with your language. Are some of them going to like the fact that there are powerful, sexy female characters? Absolutely. Are many of them going to like the fact that you are referring to these supposedly intelligent, respected, powerful women as "girls" and "hot chicks"? Dunno about that so much. Are [I]any[/I] of us going to appreciate sitting down to a gaming table and being called "girl" and "chick" by the other gamers because your system teaches that language and that way of viewing and interacting with women? Not a chance in Gehenna, bub. As a female gamer, I feel marginalized enough. As a female at all, I already live in an environment of media bombardment that says I am worth nothing if I am not a marketable sex commodity. I very much do not need more of this from my own kind. If I sit down at a gaming table, I expect to be seen as a gamer - as a human being, as an ordinary person who just wants to play like everyone else. Bottom line, I do not want my gaming experience to look like this. I do not want to be objectified by men whose idea of what women are like and how they should see us and treat us comes from people who refer to us in demeaning terms and use us as marketing commodities. Tone down the 'hot chick' objectification crap and show a little more respect for the things you say you appreciate in women who game, and maybe we'll actually believe you. Even the men have been reacting pretty negatively and angrily here, so it may be time to seriously re-think your sensitivity level over in Marketing. [/QUOTE]
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