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<blockquote data-quote="barasawa" data-source="post: 7757580" data-attributes="member: 44909"><p>Other products and other companies aren't relevant to the pricing. Of course, unless PEGinc has added a LOT of content of some kind, I can't see them justifying a tripling of the cost. Of course, world books or settings are where they really get their money, but we're talking about the rules, not those. Now if they've added enough rules to that rulebook to bulk it up without doing the scam of increased font size, then they've pretty much thrown away and shot with orbital nukes their motto of 3Fs (Fast - Fun - Furious). </p><p>Of course I don't expect a lot of changes or expansions to the rules at all, so what are they doing to justify that much higher cost for the paperback version? Sure we don't know, otherwise I'd know whether it seemed kosher or not. That lack of knowledge has me a bit worried about it. After all, there are lots of gamers that don't have a lot of spare cash to toss at revamps of the game engine, and unfortunately I am often one of them. I have to weigh all my prospective expenses against my limited funds.</p><p>And yes, I did notice that there will be a conversion document released so technically you don't have to get the new book, but it's just not the same. People like having an updated copy at hand, and after all, if the previous $10 version and a free document brings you up to date, then why the triple price? I expect that printing costs in general have gone up, but I doubt they're anywhere near triple. On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the print run will be high enough to get discounts from the printers like most bulk purchases.</p><p></p><p>Of course RIFTS, and especially Flash Gordon were more expensive, they had to pay someone else a big licensing fee. I have no idea how much, but I bet the Flash Gordon was a whole pile of pretty pennies. But, those aren't the rules that everyone needs, they are settings, and the Players usually only need a couple of pages of the new stuff, not the whole book. </p><p>You know, if you look for games out there that are just the ruleset/engine, you can find a number of them that give PDFs of that for free, but not the adventures and settings. </p><p></p><p>I totally agree about the naming, it's not just a reprint with some errata, we know they have other stuff, so having a clear indication of which one it is can only help. Had enough trouble with trying to find the correct errata between the 1st printing release, deluxe, explorer, etc. As to tacking on some kind of adjective or other random word, that's way too confusing for everyone. (Take note Android Devs, nobody knows what the sequence of Icecream, Jellybean, Gateau, and Popsicle are. Use freaking numbers so it's obvious to the users! Speaking of which, how many readers knew that other than being a french cake, gateau isn't a release of the Android OS, at least not yet)</p><p></p><p>Also on the name front, you can only get away with a word based version delineation once, after that it's confusing, and PEGinc has used a lot of them already. Though if they used "Reloaded" as it's the current revamping name for settings, it might work, except it's not the same version as that in those various "Reloaded" products. So I guess that wouldn't really work either. I really hope some of the folks over at PEGinc read this post <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>Abstruse also mentioned POD (Print On Demand). Sure it might be an option, but after all costs for that, it'll probably be as expensive or more so than the kickstarter book. After all, I'm pretty sure that PEGinc will have a large enough print run to have a scale of economy price break from the printer, whatever company that is. </p><p>As to run size, that's one of the great things about getting funding from a kickstarter for a product you ARE doing. It's like a preorder, so you have pretty much a guarantee of a certain sales level. You can of course add a bit more to handle those retailers didn't kick in and the stragglers that missed also the kickstarter for some reason or another. It's no where near the gamble that a blind production run can be.</p><p></p><p>But I'm babbling far too much and going into the details about my thinking, but I guess those aren't really necessary. </p><p></p><p>Boiled down to the basics:</p><p></p><p>$30 is too much for just a mod of the rules they've been selling for $10. </p><p>Maybe it has enough new stuff to make it worthwhile, but we don't know yet.</p><p>Products that are not just a ruleset/engine aren't something to compare SW to, which is JUST an engine/ruleset. (At least as far as we know)</p><p></p><p>Please be aware, I'm not for or against the new version of SW yet, though I am hopeful, but it does spark some big questions with the tiny amount of info we currently have. Also, I'm not trying to argue or fight or anything else with anyone, just trying to be clear. As to opinions, we all have them, and as long as they don't bring someone to try and hurt another, that's perfectly fine <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>Thanks a lot for reading this annoying long post <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="barasawa, post: 7757580, member: 44909"] Other products and other companies aren't relevant to the pricing. Of course, unless PEGinc has added a LOT of content of some kind, I can't see them justifying a tripling of the cost. Of course, world books or settings are where they really get their money, but we're talking about the rules, not those. Now if they've added enough rules to that rulebook to bulk it up without doing the scam of increased font size, then they've pretty much thrown away and shot with orbital nukes their motto of 3Fs (Fast - Fun - Furious). Of course I don't expect a lot of changes or expansions to the rules at all, so what are they doing to justify that much higher cost for the paperback version? Sure we don't know, otherwise I'd know whether it seemed kosher or not. That lack of knowledge has me a bit worried about it. After all, there are lots of gamers that don't have a lot of spare cash to toss at revamps of the game engine, and unfortunately I am often one of them. I have to weigh all my prospective expenses against my limited funds. And yes, I did notice that there will be a conversion document released so technically you don't have to get the new book, but it's just not the same. People like having an updated copy at hand, and after all, if the previous $10 version and a free document brings you up to date, then why the triple price? I expect that printing costs in general have gone up, but I doubt they're anywhere near triple. On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the print run will be high enough to get discounts from the printers like most bulk purchases. Of course RIFTS, and especially Flash Gordon were more expensive, they had to pay someone else a big licensing fee. I have no idea how much, but I bet the Flash Gordon was a whole pile of pretty pennies. But, those aren't the rules that everyone needs, they are settings, and the Players usually only need a couple of pages of the new stuff, not the whole book. You know, if you look for games out there that are just the ruleset/engine, you can find a number of them that give PDFs of that for free, but not the adventures and settings. I totally agree about the naming, it's not just a reprint with some errata, we know they have other stuff, so having a clear indication of which one it is can only help. Had enough trouble with trying to find the correct errata between the 1st printing release, deluxe, explorer, etc. As to tacking on some kind of adjective or other random word, that's way too confusing for everyone. (Take note Android Devs, nobody knows what the sequence of Icecream, Jellybean, Gateau, and Popsicle are. Use freaking numbers so it's obvious to the users! Speaking of which, how many readers knew that other than being a french cake, gateau isn't a release of the Android OS, at least not yet) Also on the name front, you can only get away with a word based version delineation once, after that it's confusing, and PEGinc has used a lot of them already. Though if they used "Reloaded" as it's the current revamping name for settings, it might work, except it's not the same version as that in those various "Reloaded" products. So I guess that wouldn't really work either. I really hope some of the folks over at PEGinc read this post ;) Abstruse also mentioned POD (Print On Demand). Sure it might be an option, but after all costs for that, it'll probably be as expensive or more so than the kickstarter book. After all, I'm pretty sure that PEGinc will have a large enough print run to have a scale of economy price break from the printer, whatever company that is. As to run size, that's one of the great things about getting funding from a kickstarter for a product you ARE doing. It's like a preorder, so you have pretty much a guarantee of a certain sales level. You can of course add a bit more to handle those retailers didn't kick in and the stragglers that missed also the kickstarter for some reason or another. It's no where near the gamble that a blind production run can be. But I'm babbling far too much and going into the details about my thinking, but I guess those aren't really necessary. Boiled down to the basics: $30 is too much for just a mod of the rules they've been selling for $10. Maybe it has enough new stuff to make it worthwhile, but we don't know yet. Products that are not just a ruleset/engine aren't something to compare SW to, which is JUST an engine/ruleset. (At least as far as we know) Please be aware, I'm not for or against the new version of SW yet, though I am hopeful, but it does spark some big questions with the tiny amount of info we currently have. Also, I'm not trying to argue or fight or anything else with anyone, just trying to be clear. As to opinions, we all have them, and as long as they don't bring someone to try and hurt another, that's perfectly fine :) Thanks a lot for reading this annoying long post :) [/QUOTE]
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