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Night at the Roxbury: Tricks for Multiple Defender Parties (by GelationousOctahedron)
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<blockquote data-quote="LightWarden" data-source="post: 6744672" data-attributes="member: 6803540"><p><strong>Miscellaneous Commentary P1</strong></p><p></p><p>[sblock]<strong></strong></p><p><strong>Originally posted by IxidorRS:</strong></p><p></p><p>Considering I'm planning on playing a Berserker Barbarian soon, I am interested in this here guide. I actually just ran a game with three defenders. It was ... hard.</p><p></p><p>I think some mention of themes might be good. Gaurdian's Counter is insanely good in multiple defender parties, due to a bit of timing tricks you can manage with it.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:</strong></p><p></p><p>Any attack which allows a PC to force a target to swing at someone other than the intended target(aka PC that marked him) ought to be Gold. Lightning Rush, Dimensional Vortex...</p><p></p><p>MCing Wizard and picking up Mass Charm when in a party with auto-damage marks works really well, too.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by mellored:</strong></p><p></p><p>Might need a spot for multiple interups triggering off the same action, and chaining interupts. It's pretty diffiuclt to figure out RAW wise (if there is a real answer).</p><p></p><p>Dimentional Vortex, Surprising Transportation (swordmage) are a winners.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Plaguescarred1:</strong></p><p></p><p>In Tactics and Powers to consider can i suggest <em>White Lotus Riposte </em>and<em> White Lotus Master Riposte </em>for the Swordmage (since its the only Defender barring Half-Elf poaching to hace access to Arcane At-will), these two Feats work great in helping punishing unmarked foe in catch-22.</p><p></p><p>In Themes and other Support, The Guardian is highly recommanded id say as it procure another punishment against unmarked foe. </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by FLAvatar:</strong></p><p></p><p>We started days after the PHB hit with a dwarf and dragonborn fighter. Dwarf did hammer and board as sort of the "main tank," and the dragonborn used a glaive and was the "off-tank."</p><p></p><p>We got a lot of mileage on solos out of letting the dwarf mark and take most of the abuse, and the dragon went with powers like Hounding Longarm and Strike of the Watchful Guard. They mimic mark punishment to a large extent, but the 2 fighters never ended up having to worry about overwriting marks and could tag team the heck out of a solo that decided to try to disrespect the lockdown or daze/stun the marker.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mand12:</strong></p><p></p><p>Dual Swordmage is fun. Since you can enforce at range, it's easy enough to have each swordmage mark a target, then switch targets. Makes those dual-Elite encounters rather trivial.</p><p></p><p>As a bonus, you also get the lovely, lovely Dimension Swap.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by RenZhe:</strong></p><p></p><p>For Swordmages:</p><p></p><p>Booming Blade fits the defending without marking bill pretty spot-on, and is a pretty standard way for Swordmages to lock down 2 targets in heroic. Combo with another class that can mark or punish at range.</p><p></p><p>Also, Frigid Blade works like a Slow or Immobilize in higher tiers, and Luring Strike does exactly the same thing as Footwork Lure on a fighter.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by mellored:</strong></p><p></p><p>Oh, and i heartily approve of this guide </p><p></p><p>(admittedly, not so much with the name, would of gone with "defender interupted" or "defending the defender", or "over protecetion" or something, but meh).</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Paladins can have an arcane at-will via Power of Arcana and Virtuous Strike.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Gunthar:</strong></p><p></p><p>The Freedom Fighter Paragon Path (Warlord multi or Escaped Slave Theme) is also really sweet for that Level 11 power and Action Point benefit. It's a 3[W] from 6 squares away version of the Guardian Power and the Action Point benefit of one ally (or all marked or grabbed allies) getting free basic attacks is really nice for adding up the number of attacks to help with raw damage.</p><p></p><p>Freedom Fighter Attack 11 Self-Sacrificing Strike</p><p></p><p><em>You dive to your friend’s rescue and then rise up in revenge.</em></p><p></p><p>Encounter <img src="http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/images/bullet.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> Martial, Weapon</p><p>Immediate Interrupt Melee or Ranged weapon</p><p></p><p>Trigger: An ally within 6 squares of you is the target of a ranged or melee attack.</p><p></p><p>Effect: You shift up to 5 squares to end adjacent to the triggering ally, slide the ally 1 square, and shift into the square the ally left. You make the following attack.</p><p></p><p>Target: The creature that made the triggering attack</p><p></p><p>Attack: Primary ability vs. AC</p><p></p><p>Hit: 3[W] + ability modifier damage, and you gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses against the triggering attack.</p><p></p><p>Aftereffect: You become the target of the triggering attack.</p><p></p><p>In theory, multiple characters with this PP could off-turn semi-spike a solo as the after-affect makes the PC a target or one character could have it to set up a chain with the Guardian power.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by WEContact:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But... the name is the best part. It's perfect.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by EnglishLanguage:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>'Who Defends the Defender?"</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by sythspawn:</strong></p><p></p><p>I just got done playing in an LFR adventure where the party consisted of two warlords, two fighters, a swordmage, and a warden. Weird, but fun.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by the_great_gray_skwid:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Seconded! I even have the perfect top graphic:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7089/720165706tw.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by GelatinousOctahedron:</strong></p><p></p><p>Anyone know which other battlemind powers would be good to add?</p><p></p><p>Also I know little about knights and cavaliers. I have only seen one knight in play in a one shot and no cavaliers. Suggestions for tricks with them are welcome.</p><p></p><p>Paragon paths and themes now have their own section so more suggestions are welcome.</p><p></p><p>I also added a section for links to builds. I am going to add my assault swordmage/barbarian as a build that works well for this since it is a hybrid defender that works well with other defenders. And I am going to add Set Hammers to Stun since that works well since it is not marked based in its punishment. Any other suggestions are welcome.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by AtG:</strong></p><p></p><p>I have a Swordmage|Warlord in a party with a Battlemind. I don't actually get my aegis interrupt that often - Dimensional Vortex and Countering Thunderclap usually take priority. When I do mark something, the Battlemind will use Conductive Defense. On top of that, I can either stack WLR + some THP (from Booming Blade + Rose King's Shield) or just run away and use Direct the Strike.</p><p></p><p>Also, if you aren't using your aegis interrupt as often powers like Transposing Lunge are somewhat more valuable, because an enemy really doesn't want to be the first one to violate your mark.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Scatterbrained:</strong></p><p></p><p>Looking at the Berseker, I don't see any reactive powers, but they have plenty that prone or immobilize to stick to marked foes. I think they would mostly rely on that tactic in addition to things that aren't class-specific. Luckily marks take precedence over the aura.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by VorpalBunny:</strong></p><p></p><p>Doesn't the Berserker gain access to all the Barbarian powers, therefore Curtain of Steel and Fearsome Smash? Those could be usefull if you're using the Berserker as a tank in a two-tank party...</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by TheMalteseFalchion:</strong></p><p></p><p>A multi-defender party (depending on the wording of their main marking mechanic) can really benefit from a Wizard/Mage with Hypnotism, which will force creatures to attack things other than the defender who marked them, starting at level 1.</p><p></p><p>Great for making a creature violate a Warden's mark. Not so great against the Paladin's mark.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Scatterbrained:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>I suppose, but remember when you use a primal attack you're no longer a defender, so it would foil any further defender-defender stuff for the rest of the encounter.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by VorpalBunny:</strong></p><p></p><p>Is the language on "Berserker's Fury" (orwhatever that class feature is) "Can" or "Must" enter a fury when you use a primal encounter attack power?...</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by psk20:</strong></p><p></p><p>I started a guide on this(x) a couple of years ago. I never finished the power list because the list gets huge if you try and discuss all the possible options for all classes. But the treatment of the theory is pretty solid - I even coined the term "off-tanks trilemma." Fancy.</p><p></p><p>Feel free to borrow some of the stuff from that guide if you like (just give me a nod <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />) </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by psk20:</strong></p><p></p><p>Also, a permahidden OA specialist combines really nicely with a Swordmage - particularly an Assault swordmage (with this combo a shielding swordmage is likely to be somewhat redundant).</p><p></p><p>Have the swordmage mark a target and kite, while the stealther gets ready to mop up some sweet, sweet OAs. </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by psk20:</strong></p><p></p><p>I think the barbarian will definitely need special treatment. It's somewhat unique in that it operates as a fairly stock-standard defender until you flip the switch and is then a striker. A great fifth wheel, IMO.</p><p></p><p>That reminds me, it's definitely worth considering how any two defender party will deal with solos. Obviously they can't both mark. The barbarian gets around this by just going striker mode during solo encounters. Other off-tanks need to find a form of mark-less punishment and layer it on top of the main-tank's mark.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by alien270:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In a party with multiple defenders I would honestly just stay in Fury most of the time anyways. I can see Aggressive Lunge and Run Down both being useful if you're working with another defender, and an O-Barbarian won't get as much mileage out of these powers. Berserkers can also front-load a bunch of THP early on by taking the Berserk Vitality feat. I'm not saying it's necessarily a <em>better</em> striker than an O-Barbarian for this type of party, but it does bring its own tricks to the table and I don't think it'd be weaker even if you largely ignored the defender aura. </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by psk20:</strong></p><p></p><p>Hmm, I wonder how an ebarian would work out in tandem with another defender-lite striker build. </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by sanityfaerie:</strong></p><p></p><p>For Battleminds: I believe that they have a power - twisted eye or something? - that forces the enemy to attack one of their own friends, and can be used to trigger mark punishments. There are builds structured around exploiting that by yourself, but I imagine it would be that much easier to exploit it with a friend.</p><p></p><p>reach weapons are excellent with multi-defender parties, especially for fighters/paladins and with powers that let you prevent or punish shifting. Line up in a row, with the nonmarking defender between the marking (polearm-wielding) defender and the enemy. Either the enemy attacks the guy in front of him, and suffers mark punishment, moves, and takes an opportunity attack (or two), or shifts, and takes whatever punishment you have for shifting.</p><p></p><p>- Two-fisted brawler pin-down also becomes an interesting option. A properly built pin-down brawler can pretty effectively lock down and (at least to a degree) trivialize any enemy who winds up adjacent and prone, up until he runs out of hands. Problem is that it takes a whiel to set up if he has to do it himself, and after he has one locked down, his ability to chase down additional targets diminishes fairly rapidly. Build another defender with a specialty for forced movement and proning, however, particularly one that can either mark and walk away(battlemind/swordmage), mark and maintain at a safe distance (polearm paladin/fighter) or move in and out to maintain the mark (kobold warden - Hey, stop laughing. It *could* happen) and you can leave the chosen enemy with some really poor options.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Dedekine:</strong></p><p></p><p>Battlemind powers worth note (probably not comprehensive):</p><p></p><p>Conductive Defence is the second most obvious power, as it is no-mark-required mark punishment.</p><p></p><p>Lodestone Lure combines well with a ranged enforcement defender like a shielding swordmage to deny the monster the option of "go engage the guy who's marking me."</p><p></p><p>Lightning Rush, most obviously.</p><p></p><p>Might of the Ogre is another that combines well with another ranged defender to pile on damage while limiting options by eating up the move action.</p><p></p><p>Mind of Mirrors is the at-will dominate (as an Augment 6, though). However, the unaugmented version is also very applicable. The target takes -5 to hit anyone other than you, so good synergy with someone like a fighter with vicious mark punishment.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Gunthar:</strong></p><p></p><p>Also, teleport items and powers of especially more than one square are golden.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Awesomologist:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The e-barian is just a hybrid striker|defender bundled in one. E-barian should just follow the same tricks as other Hybrid Striker|Defenders; mark when you need to lock down a few oponents or give your defender a break, otherwise just rely on your striker attacks and features. It's not hard at all, I've been doing it with SM|Locks, Paladin|Locks, and Blackguard|Lock (oddly better than the pure pally version). I imagine it works for Fighter combos as well as you can just switch between marking with your fighter powers.</p><p></p><p>Best part about hybrids is that there's no "switching" needed. You just use a power or you don't. Still waiting to see if the e-barian is any better than the Barbarian who MC's Fighter and if there's any loss or gain in damage output. </p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by mellored:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>I must be missing the reference...</p><p></p><p>Either way, i judge guids not by the color of their name, but the color of their content. And so far, so good.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by GelatinousOctahedron:</strong></p><p></p><p>Mellored, the name came from this comment(x) in the original thread. Don't think bobbing heads, think a <a href="http://www.flixster.com/photos/a-night-at-the-roxbury-a-night-at-the-roxbury-9061549" target="_blank">bunch of guys swarming a girl</a> on a dance floor who can't get away.</p><p></p><p>Paladin divine challenges an enemy, attacks, then shifts away. Next round enemy moves next to paladin to attack it. That triggers guardians pounce from the warden, then lightning rush from the battlemind, and then price of cowardice from the paladin.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by mellored:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair enough.</p><p></p><p>Still like EnglishLaunges's "who defends the defender" better though. <img src="http://community.wizards.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Edit: You should use that pic.</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Gervase_Trapspringer:</strong></p><p></p><p>Quis defensor defendere?</p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by Awesomologist:</strong></p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.myspaceantics.com/images/myspace-graphics/animations/night-at-the-roxbury-sandwich.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Pity I can't find a larger one. But this may do:</p><p><img src="http://www.angelfire.com/ny/trevor5/images/roxbury3.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p><strong>Originally posted by psk20:</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As a hybrid striker|defender, you really should be trying to do both at the same time, IMO.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LightWarden, post: 6744672, member: 6803540"] [B]Miscellaneous Commentary P1[/B] [sblock][B] Originally posted by IxidorRS:[/B] Considering I'm planning on playing a Berserker Barbarian soon, I am interested in this here guide. I actually just ran a game with three defenders. It was ... hard. I think some mention of themes might be good. Gaurdian's Counter is insanely good in multiple defender parties, due to a bit of timing tricks you can manage with it. [B]Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:[/B] Any attack which allows a PC to force a target to swing at someone other than the intended target(aka PC that marked him) ought to be Gold. Lightning Rush, Dimensional Vortex... MCing Wizard and picking up Mass Charm when in a party with auto-damage marks works really well, too. [B]Originally posted by mellored:[/B] Might need a spot for multiple interups triggering off the same action, and chaining interupts. It's pretty diffiuclt to figure out RAW wise (if there is a real answer). Dimentional Vortex, Surprising Transportation (swordmage) are a winners. [B]Originally posted by Plaguescarred1:[/B] In Tactics and Powers to consider can i suggest [I]White Lotus Riposte [/I]and[I] White Lotus Master Riposte [/I]for the Swordmage (since its the only Defender barring Half-Elf poaching to hace access to Arcane At-will), these two Feats work great in helping punishing unmarked foe in catch-22. In Themes and other Support, The Guardian is highly recommanded id say as it procure another punishment against unmarked foe. [B]Originally posted by FLAvatar:[/B] We started days after the PHB hit with a dwarf and dragonborn fighter. Dwarf did hammer and board as sort of the "main tank," and the dragonborn used a glaive and was the "off-tank." We got a lot of mileage on solos out of letting the dwarf mark and take most of the abuse, and the dragon went with powers like Hounding Longarm and Strike of the Watchful Guard. They mimic mark punishment to a large extent, but the 2 fighters never ended up having to worry about overwriting marks and could tag team the heck out of a solo that decided to try to disrespect the lockdown or daze/stun the marker. [B]Originally posted by Mand12:[/B] Dual Swordmage is fun. Since you can enforce at range, it's easy enough to have each swordmage mark a target, then switch targets. Makes those dual-Elite encounters rather trivial. As a bonus, you also get the lovely, lovely Dimension Swap. [B]Originally posted by RenZhe:[/B] For Swordmages: Booming Blade fits the defending without marking bill pretty spot-on, and is a pretty standard way for Swordmages to lock down 2 targets in heroic. Combo with another class that can mark or punish at range. Also, Frigid Blade works like a Slow or Immobilize in higher tiers, and Luring Strike does exactly the same thing as Footwork Lure on a fighter. [B]Originally posted by mellored:[/B] Oh, and i heartily approve of this guide (admittedly, not so much with the name, would of gone with "defender interupted" or "defending the defender", or "over protecetion" or something, but meh). [B]Originally posted by Mommy_was_an_Orc:[/B] Paladins can have an arcane at-will via Power of Arcana and Virtuous Strike. [B]Originally posted by Gunthar:[/B] The Freedom Fighter Paragon Path (Warlord multi or Escaped Slave Theme) is also really sweet for that Level 11 power and Action Point benefit. It's a 3[W] from 6 squares away version of the Guardian Power and the Action Point benefit of one ally (or all marked or grabbed allies) getting free basic attacks is really nice for adding up the number of attacks to help with raw damage. Freedom Fighter Attack 11 Self-Sacrificing Strike [I]You dive to your friend’s rescue and then rise up in revenge.[/I] Encounter [IMG]http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/images/bullet.gif[/IMG] Martial, Weapon Immediate Interrupt Melee or Ranged weapon Trigger: An ally within 6 squares of you is the target of a ranged or melee attack. Effect: You shift up to 5 squares to end adjacent to the triggering ally, slide the ally 1 square, and shift into the square the ally left. You make the following attack. Target: The creature that made the triggering attack Attack: Primary ability vs. AC Hit: 3[W] + ability modifier damage, and you gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses against the triggering attack. Aftereffect: You become the target of the triggering attack. In theory, multiple characters with this PP could off-turn semi-spike a solo as the after-affect makes the PC a target or one character could have it to set up a chain with the Guardian power. [B]Originally posted by WEContact:[/B] But... the name is the best part. It's perfect. [B]Originally posted by EnglishLanguage:[/B] 'Who Defends the Defender?" [B]Originally posted by sythspawn:[/B] I just got done playing in an LFR adventure where the party consisted of two warlords, two fighters, a swordmage, and a warden. Weird, but fun. [B]Originally posted by the_great_gray_skwid:[/B] Seconded! I even have the perfect top graphic: [IMG]http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7089/720165706tw.gif[/IMG] [B]Originally posted by GelatinousOctahedron:[/B] Anyone know which other battlemind powers would be good to add? Also I know little about knights and cavaliers. I have only seen one knight in play in a one shot and no cavaliers. Suggestions for tricks with them are welcome. Paragon paths and themes now have their own section so more suggestions are welcome. I also added a section for links to builds. I am going to add my assault swordmage/barbarian as a build that works well for this since it is a hybrid defender that works well with other defenders. And I am going to add Set Hammers to Stun since that works well since it is not marked based in its punishment. Any other suggestions are welcome. [B]Originally posted by AtG:[/B] I have a Swordmage|Warlord in a party with a Battlemind. I don't actually get my aegis interrupt that often - Dimensional Vortex and Countering Thunderclap usually take priority. When I do mark something, the Battlemind will use Conductive Defense. On top of that, I can either stack WLR + some THP (from Booming Blade + Rose King's Shield) or just run away and use Direct the Strike. Also, if you aren't using your aegis interrupt as often powers like Transposing Lunge are somewhat more valuable, because an enemy really doesn't want to be the first one to violate your mark. [B]Originally posted by Scatterbrained:[/B] Looking at the Berseker, I don't see any reactive powers, but they have plenty that prone or immobilize to stick to marked foes. I think they would mostly rely on that tactic in addition to things that aren't class-specific. Luckily marks take precedence over the aura. [B]Originally posted by VorpalBunny:[/B] Doesn't the Berserker gain access to all the Barbarian powers, therefore Curtain of Steel and Fearsome Smash? Those could be usefull if you're using the Berserker as a tank in a two-tank party... [B]Originally posted by TheMalteseFalchion:[/B] A multi-defender party (depending on the wording of their main marking mechanic) can really benefit from a Wizard/Mage with Hypnotism, which will force creatures to attack things other than the defender who marked them, starting at level 1. Great for making a creature violate a Warden's mark. Not so great against the Paladin's mark. [B]Originally posted by Scatterbrained:[/B] I suppose, but remember when you use a primal attack you're no longer a defender, so it would foil any further defender-defender stuff for the rest of the encounter. [B]Originally posted by VorpalBunny:[/B] Is the language on "Berserker's Fury" (orwhatever that class feature is) "Can" or "Must" enter a fury when you use a primal encounter attack power?... [B]Originally posted by psk20:[/B] I started a guide on this(x) a couple of years ago. I never finished the power list because the list gets huge if you try and discuss all the possible options for all classes. But the treatment of the theory is pretty solid - I even coined the term "off-tanks trilemma." Fancy. Feel free to borrow some of the stuff from that guide if you like (just give me a nod :P) [B]Originally posted by psk20:[/B] Also, a permahidden OA specialist combines really nicely with a Swordmage - particularly an Assault swordmage (with this combo a shielding swordmage is likely to be somewhat redundant). Have the swordmage mark a target and kite, while the stealther gets ready to mop up some sweet, sweet OAs. [B]Originally posted by psk20:[/B] I think the barbarian will definitely need special treatment. It's somewhat unique in that it operates as a fairly stock-standard defender until you flip the switch and is then a striker. A great fifth wheel, IMO. That reminds me, it's definitely worth considering how any two defender party will deal with solos. Obviously they can't both mark. The barbarian gets around this by just going striker mode during solo encounters. Other off-tanks need to find a form of mark-less punishment and layer it on top of the main-tank's mark. [B]Originally posted by alien270:[/B] In a party with multiple defenders I would honestly just stay in Fury most of the time anyways. I can see Aggressive Lunge and Run Down both being useful if you're working with another defender, and an O-Barbarian won't get as much mileage out of these powers. Berserkers can also front-load a bunch of THP early on by taking the Berserk Vitality feat. I'm not saying it's necessarily a [I]better[/I] striker than an O-Barbarian for this type of party, but it does bring its own tricks to the table and I don't think it'd be weaker even if you largely ignored the defender aura. [B]Originally posted by psk20:[/B] Hmm, I wonder how an ebarian would work out in tandem with another defender-lite striker build. [B]Originally posted by sanityfaerie:[/B] For Battleminds: I believe that they have a power - twisted eye or something? - that forces the enemy to attack one of their own friends, and can be used to trigger mark punishments. There are builds structured around exploiting that by yourself, but I imagine it would be that much easier to exploit it with a friend. reach weapons are excellent with multi-defender parties, especially for fighters/paladins and with powers that let you prevent or punish shifting. Line up in a row, with the nonmarking defender between the marking (polearm-wielding) defender and the enemy. Either the enemy attacks the guy in front of him, and suffers mark punishment, moves, and takes an opportunity attack (or two), or shifts, and takes whatever punishment you have for shifting. - Two-fisted brawler pin-down also becomes an interesting option. A properly built pin-down brawler can pretty effectively lock down and (at least to a degree) trivialize any enemy who winds up adjacent and prone, up until he runs out of hands. Problem is that it takes a whiel to set up if he has to do it himself, and after he has one locked down, his ability to chase down additional targets diminishes fairly rapidly. Build another defender with a specialty for forced movement and proning, however, particularly one that can either mark and walk away(battlemind/swordmage), mark and maintain at a safe distance (polearm paladin/fighter) or move in and out to maintain the mark (kobold warden - Hey, stop laughing. It *could* happen) and you can leave the chosen enemy with some really poor options. [B]Originally posted by Dedekine:[/B] Battlemind powers worth note (probably not comprehensive): Conductive Defence is the second most obvious power, as it is no-mark-required mark punishment. Lodestone Lure combines well with a ranged enforcement defender like a shielding swordmage to deny the monster the option of "go engage the guy who's marking me." Lightning Rush, most obviously. Might of the Ogre is another that combines well with another ranged defender to pile on damage while limiting options by eating up the move action. Mind of Mirrors is the at-will dominate (as an Augment 6, though). However, the unaugmented version is also very applicable. The target takes -5 to hit anyone other than you, so good synergy with someone like a fighter with vicious mark punishment. [B]Originally posted by Gunthar:[/B] Also, teleport items and powers of especially more than one square are golden. [B]Originally posted by Awesomologist:[/B] The e-barian is just a hybrid striker|defender bundled in one. E-barian should just follow the same tricks as other Hybrid Striker|Defenders; mark when you need to lock down a few oponents or give your defender a break, otherwise just rely on your striker attacks and features. It's not hard at all, I've been doing it with SM|Locks, Paladin|Locks, and Blackguard|Lock (oddly better than the pure pally version). I imagine it works for Fighter combos as well as you can just switch between marking with your fighter powers. Best part about hybrids is that there's no "switching" needed. You just use a power or you don't. Still waiting to see if the e-barian is any better than the Barbarian who MC's Fighter and if there's any loss or gain in damage output. [B]Originally posted by mellored:[/B] I must be missing the reference... Either way, i judge guids not by the color of their name, but the color of their content. And so far, so good. [B]Originally posted by GelatinousOctahedron:[/B] Mellored, the name came from this comment(x) in the original thread. Don't think bobbing heads, think a [URL="http://www.flixster.com/photos/a-night-at-the-roxbury-a-night-at-the-roxbury-9061549"]bunch of guys swarming a girl[/URL] on a dance floor who can't get away. Paladin divine challenges an enemy, attacks, then shifts away. Next round enemy moves next to paladin to attack it. That triggers guardians pounce from the warden, then lightning rush from the battlemind, and then price of cowardice from the paladin. [B]Originally posted by mellored:[/B] Fair enough. Still like EnglishLaunges's "who defends the defender" better though. [IMG]http://community.wizards.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif[/IMG] Edit: You should use that pic. [B]Originally posted by Gervase_Trapspringer:[/B] Quis defensor defendere? [B]Originally posted by Awesomologist:[/B] [IMG]http://www.myspaceantics.com/images/myspace-graphics/animations/night-at-the-roxbury-sandwich.gif[/IMG] Pity I can't find a larger one. But this may do: [IMG]http://www.angelfire.com/ny/trevor5/images/roxbury3.jpg[/IMG] [B]Originally posted by psk20:[/B] As a hybrid striker|defender, you really should be trying to do both at the same time, IMO.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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Night at the Roxbury: Tricks for Multiple Defender Parties (by GelationousOctahedron)
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