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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Nightwalker: Really a CR 20?
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 7531884" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>Every since the 3e MM, the Nightcrawler has been one of my favorite monsters....mainly because the artwork was so amazing.</p><p></p><p>Now looking at the 5e version in Tome of Foes....I feel like it doesn't quite live up to its CR 20.</p><p></p><p>Just using the ballpark calculations from the DMG:</p><p></p><p>1) Defensive CR: 14</p><p></p><p>Very low AC, HP are nothing special. The immunities aren't particularly good at this point.</p><p></p><p>2) Offensive CR: 18</p><p></p><p>For this I assumed that every party member is failing its save against this creature, as a DC 21 is very hard to pass. I assumed 2 characters are getting stuck in the aura. Then I assumed the creature uses its finger of doom to get an immediate paralyze, which gives it 3 crits do to coup de grace. The effect only lasts for 1 round, so the 3rd round is just normal attacks.</p><p></p><p>That puts the average damage output at about 105, with a bump for a strong attack bonus.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So average CR 16. Further, the mental stats on this creature are abysmal. Any caster worth their salt at these level is going to have a mid-level wisdom or charisma check whammy that the creature has basically no hope of fending off. The only thing scary about this creature is the life drain, which can be very nasty. But all in all this creature doesn't bring enough defense to hold on very long, and its offensive....while having some very scary long term effects...is just not cutting the mustard against what level 20's...or even level 16s....bring to the table.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Does anyone have any experience with this creature that would suggest otherwise?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 7531884, member: 5889"] Every since the 3e MM, the Nightcrawler has been one of my favorite monsters....mainly because the artwork was so amazing. Now looking at the 5e version in Tome of Foes....I feel like it doesn't quite live up to its CR 20. Just using the ballpark calculations from the DMG: 1) Defensive CR: 14 Very low AC, HP are nothing special. The immunities aren't particularly good at this point. 2) Offensive CR: 18 For this I assumed that every party member is failing its save against this creature, as a DC 21 is very hard to pass. I assumed 2 characters are getting stuck in the aura. Then I assumed the creature uses its finger of doom to get an immediate paralyze, which gives it 3 crits do to coup de grace. The effect only lasts for 1 round, so the 3rd round is just normal attacks. That puts the average damage output at about 105, with a bump for a strong attack bonus. So average CR 16. Further, the mental stats on this creature are abysmal. Any caster worth their salt at these level is going to have a mid-level wisdom or charisma check whammy that the creature has basically no hope of fending off. The only thing scary about this creature is the life drain, which can be very nasty. But all in all this creature doesn't bring enough defense to hold on very long, and its offensive....while having some very scary long term effects...is just not cutting the mustard against what level 20's...or even level 16s....bring to the table. Does anyone have any experience with this creature that would suggest otherwise? [/QUOTE]
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