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No One Plays High Level?
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9225526" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>It is the same thing with the non combat feats</p><p></p><p>The character who never thought of being doing something before is taking skill focus to boost his pitiful stealth at high level. So I am taking a weak skill focus, first level feat at a level I should be taking skill master or claim skill or something like that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Almost all my characters in 3.5E felt very contrived, limited and for the most part underpowered as I dumped points into cross class skills, waited agonizingly high levels to get the skills required to do a PRC class that did not compliment my original class (there is a reason I mentioned going shadowdancer from a base fighter). Taking useless feats you did not care about and made no sense because they were prerequisites for something you did.</p><p></p><p>Why the heck do I need to take Combat Expertise and Dodge and Spring Attack to learn Whirwind attack? Why can't I just learn Whirlwind attack, and if I want my character to learn Whirlwind attack because I spent a night in a Dervish camp, why can'tt I just pick it up next level instead of needing like 4 different other feats first.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These are not options for most players. If I need 6 ranks in hide and I am a 10th level fighter with a 0 hide I am going to need 6 more levels to get there with a normal intelligence and I am going to have to completely stop investing in other skills in that time.</p><p></p><p>That is the whole problem. Why should I need BAB X or Hide Y to take a feat. Just let me take the feat!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whatever you pick, powergaming or not eliminates most picks.</p><p></p><p>For example not picking the prereqs for Whirlwind attack means you can't take Whirlwind Attack. It doe snot matter if you powergamed or if you picked a bunch off traps, the fact that they were not the 4 you need mean you are locked out.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure but we are talking about RAW here.</p><p></p><p>If I am going to use this strawman, then the 5E DM can allow all 3.5E feats and PRC classes in a 5E game, he can give all PCs a feat choice every level and completely eliminates all the 3.5E prerequisites .... well I guess that means there are actually way more total options in 5E because the DM is free to do this in 5E right?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No most of the time you are missing like 20 skill points.</p><p></p><p>Take using Ninja to qualify for Shadowdancer as per your example. I need 8 ranks in move siliently, 10 in hide and 5 ranks in perform.</p><p></p><p>Ninja is a skill-happy class, you get 6 a level so that would be 4 levels to get all those points .... but perform is cross-class for a Ninja. So it is 5 levels before you have the bare minimums to jump into Shadowdancer and after this 5-level investment you are still not even really good at hiding.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not a few, many, many levels. If you are a fighter you are getting 2 points a level and cross-class skill costs 2 points to boost a point. You will actually never get to where you are good at it. In 5E I go from being not good to being an expert in ONE LEVEL.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. To start with you have Deft Explorer, not Natural explorer. Ranger is a known spell class, you choose your spells and your subclass spells include illusions the shadowfell is known for and Fear that fits the theme really well.</p><p></p><p>You don't have to play a nature-ranger in 5E. That is the whole point!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good thing you don't need to take favored enemy as a Ranger .... although I would say Undead favored enemy fits perfectly for a Shadow-fell aligned character</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Blind Fighting!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Before "on and on", you need to provide a single example of something.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9225526, member: 7030563"] It is the same thing with the non combat feats The character who never thought of being doing something before is taking skill focus to boost his pitiful stealth at high level. So I am taking a weak skill focus, first level feat at a level I should be taking skill master or claim skill or something like that. Almost all my characters in 3.5E felt very contrived, limited and for the most part underpowered as I dumped points into cross class skills, waited agonizingly high levels to get the skills required to do a PRC class that did not compliment my original class (there is a reason I mentioned going shadowdancer from a base fighter). Taking useless feats you did not care about and made no sense because they were prerequisites for something you did. Why the heck do I need to take Combat Expertise and Dodge and Spring Attack to learn Whirwind attack? Why can't I just learn Whirlwind attack, and if I want my character to learn Whirlwind attack because I spent a night in a Dervish camp, why can'tt I just pick it up next level instead of needing like 4 different other feats first. These are not options for most players. If I need 6 ranks in hide and I am a 10th level fighter with a 0 hide I am going to need 6 more levels to get there with a normal intelligence and I am going to have to completely stop investing in other skills in that time. That is the whole problem. Why should I need BAB X or Hide Y to take a feat. Just let me take the feat! Whatever you pick, powergaming or not eliminates most picks. For example not picking the prereqs for Whirlwind attack means you can't take Whirlwind Attack. It doe snot matter if you powergamed or if you picked a bunch off traps, the fact that they were not the 4 you need mean you are locked out. Sure but we are talking about RAW here. If I am going to use this strawman, then the 5E DM can allow all 3.5E feats and PRC classes in a 5E game, he can give all PCs a feat choice every level and completely eliminates all the 3.5E prerequisites .... well I guess that means there are actually way more total options in 5E because the DM is free to do this in 5E right? No most of the time you are missing like 20 skill points. Take using Ninja to qualify for Shadowdancer as per your example. I need 8 ranks in move siliently, 10 in hide and 5 ranks in perform. Ninja is a skill-happy class, you get 6 a level so that would be 4 levels to get all those points .... but perform is cross-class for a Ninja. So it is 5 levels before you have the bare minimums to jump into Shadowdancer and after this 5-level investment you are still not even really good at hiding. Not a few, many, many levels. If you are a fighter you are getting 2 points a level and cross-class skill costs 2 points to boost a point. You will actually never get to where you are good at it. In 5E I go from being not good to being an expert in ONE LEVEL. No. To start with you have Deft Explorer, not Natural explorer. Ranger is a known spell class, you choose your spells and your subclass spells include illusions the shadowfell is known for and Fear that fits the theme really well. You don't have to play a nature-ranger in 5E. That is the whole point! Good thing you don't need to take favored enemy as a Ranger .... although I would say Undead favored enemy fits perfectly for a Shadow-fell aligned character Blind Fighting! Before "on and on", you need to provide a single example of something. [/QUOTE]
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