Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
No One Plays High Level?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9225531" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Generally, if your group is going to have issues in high level play, I feel it's going to come up sooner than later. If your group is a pack of damage fiends and your casters think Fireball and Spirit Guardians are the be all and end all of spells, the game corrects itself as monster hit points inflate rather quickly, as damage boosts come slowly and in a predictable fashion- which follows the monster design rather neatly if you're progressing as intended (the game designers know when martials get Extra Attack, so you might see a jump in the hit points of monsters level 5 characters will encounter). Multiclassing and access to Feats can skew this (there were a lot of complaints about GWM up until a few years ago, as +10 damage on all attacks is ridiculous, and players quickly found ways to mitigate the -5 to hit. Now, however, everyone seems kind of chill about it, lol).</p><p></p><p>If, however, there are particularly strong builds, combos, good synergy between characters, and/or your party is more concerned with locking down or otherwise making enemies pretty much useless, you should see those trends long before you see anything as ridiculous as Forcecage. </p><p></p><p>I'm not saying a DM can't be surprised by how powerful the PC's can become out of the blue, but it feels like the warning signs should have been there. What I think a lot of DM's think is that this problem corrects itself with more powerful enemies in the same way as big damage numbers will, and that's not the case.</p><p></p><p>You need to really consider encounter design, enemies that complement each other, interesting battlefields, in-combat challenges, and alternate win conditions beyond "kill anything that moves". This can be a lot more work for many DM's than they really want to put into the game- it takes a lot more prep on the DM to run a game than any of the players, especially as the game progresses.</p><p></p><p>DM burnout can quickly become a factor if they have to bash their heads against the wall between sessions to prepare for the next, and it gets worse if their plans fall flat. All of this is likely the real reason why high level play is rarer to see.</p><p></p><p>It's not really a fault of the game itself- it's very clear about the experience it's trying to give it's players, for the most part. Good guidance for troubleshooting and recognizing issues in short order is what's needed- and there's a lot out there, but it's hard to really understand good advice from bad.</p><p></p><p>And the 5e DMG doesn't really do enough in my opinion. We'll see how 2024 goes, but a DMG2 would be a great book to see. Sadly, we probably won't, since it probably won't make enough money for the company.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9225531, member: 6877472"] Generally, if your group is going to have issues in high level play, I feel it's going to come up sooner than later. If your group is a pack of damage fiends and your casters think Fireball and Spirit Guardians are the be all and end all of spells, the game corrects itself as monster hit points inflate rather quickly, as damage boosts come slowly and in a predictable fashion- which follows the monster design rather neatly if you're progressing as intended (the game designers know when martials get Extra Attack, so you might see a jump in the hit points of monsters level 5 characters will encounter). Multiclassing and access to Feats can skew this (there were a lot of complaints about GWM up until a few years ago, as +10 damage on all attacks is ridiculous, and players quickly found ways to mitigate the -5 to hit. Now, however, everyone seems kind of chill about it, lol). If, however, there are particularly strong builds, combos, good synergy between characters, and/or your party is more concerned with locking down or otherwise making enemies pretty much useless, you should see those trends long before you see anything as ridiculous as Forcecage. I'm not saying a DM can't be surprised by how powerful the PC's can become out of the blue, but it feels like the warning signs should have been there. What I think a lot of DM's think is that this problem corrects itself with more powerful enemies in the same way as big damage numbers will, and that's not the case. You need to really consider encounter design, enemies that complement each other, interesting battlefields, in-combat challenges, and alternate win conditions beyond "kill anything that moves". This can be a lot more work for many DM's than they really want to put into the game- it takes a lot more prep on the DM to run a game than any of the players, especially as the game progresses. DM burnout can quickly become a factor if they have to bash their heads against the wall between sessions to prepare for the next, and it gets worse if their plans fall flat. All of this is likely the real reason why high level play is rarer to see. It's not really a fault of the game itself- it's very clear about the experience it's trying to give it's players, for the most part. Good guidance for troubleshooting and recognizing issues in short order is what's needed- and there's a lot out there, but it's hard to really understand good advice from bad. And the 5e DMG doesn't really do enough in my opinion. We'll see how 2024 goes, but a DMG2 would be a great book to see. Sadly, we probably won't, since it probably won't make enough money for the company. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
No One Plays High Level?
Top