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No One Plays High Level?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9225656" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>I guess you guys never used all the splat books, because you keep singling out the few low level feats instead of all of the good ones for some reason.</p><p></p><p>All I know is that I can only achieve about 5% of the concepts in 5e that I could in 3e. At least only 5% without having to kludge something that really doesn't work because it only kindsa, sorta works if I squint sideways.</p><p></p><p>What other skills? Fighters didn't do skills really. And you can take the Open Minded feat to immediately gain 5 skill points if you want. If you are taking 6 levels, it's because you want to take 6 levels. Not because you have to. Besides. A lot of fighters had a small int bonus and/or were human. Between the feat and levels, 1-3 levels will see you to just about anywhere you need to be.</p><p></p><p>Because if you didn't, the feat would need to be much weaker. The gating let the feat be more powerful. </p><p></p><p>Nope. That's a misperception. My personal experience and the experiences of all my players says otherwise. </p><p></p><p>Most good feats didn't need chains like that. That you keep ignoring all of those feats to concentrate on the few chain/1st level feats is telling. It tells me that you know that I am correct and are just arguing the very limited few to try and win points. The problem is that I am aware of all of the other feats that are outside of those select few.</p><p></p><p>You might not(but usually could) pick the feat that you wanted as soon as you leveled, but if you couldn't do it right away, you could in 1-3 levels which represented growing into that aspect.</p><p></p><p>So am I. RAW is that you need to find out from the DM what you can use. You cannot just assume that you can use something.</p><p></p><p>There was no Strawman, because I did not attribute to you any particular argument and then try to refute it. I flat out refuted your incorrect assertion players could just choose anything they wanted that was in 5e by telling you what RAW said.</p><p></p><p>I don't know why you assume stupid characters when the average PC will have a 12 int and therefore +1 skill point per level. And you can further take a feat to just get 5 skill points if you want. It's not going to be 5 levels in most cases.</p><p></p><p>But here's the kicker. You don't need Shadowdancer to achieve "the plane of shadow gave me some sneaky/shadow abilities." If you opt to go for the hard one, you will have to work harder. It's your choice not to get a cool ability that isn't the shadowdancer prestige class.</p><p></p><p>You are also ignoring story. Story isn't <strong><strong><em>POOF</em></strong></strong> I'm now a Shadowdancer. Story is, "I gain a little bit here and a little bit there and grow over time into a Shadowdancer." Even if it takes you 5 levels(and it won't), that's still a valid and appropriate story change.</p><p></p><p>The average fighter has a 12 int. 12 is the average of 4d6-L. You are deliberately giving the fighter a lower intelligence than he would have and that's not right.</p><p></p><p>My 5e PHB says natural explorer.</p><p></p><p>My 5e PHB says favored enemy.</p><p></p><p>My 5e PHB has no blind fighting as an option.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9225656, member: 23751"] I guess you guys never used all the splat books, because you keep singling out the few low level feats instead of all of the good ones for some reason. All I know is that I can only achieve about 5% of the concepts in 5e that I could in 3e. At least only 5% without having to kludge something that really doesn't work because it only kindsa, sorta works if I squint sideways. What other skills? Fighters didn't do skills really. And you can take the Open Minded feat to immediately gain 5 skill points if you want. If you are taking 6 levels, it's because you want to take 6 levels. Not because you have to. Besides. A lot of fighters had a small int bonus and/or were human. Between the feat and levels, 1-3 levels will see you to just about anywhere you need to be. Because if you didn't, the feat would need to be much weaker. The gating let the feat be more powerful. Nope. That's a misperception. My personal experience and the experiences of all my players says otherwise. Most good feats didn't need chains like that. That you keep ignoring all of those feats to concentrate on the few chain/1st level feats is telling. It tells me that you know that I am correct and are just arguing the very limited few to try and win points. The problem is that I am aware of all of the other feats that are outside of those select few. You might not(but usually could) pick the feat that you wanted as soon as you leveled, but if you couldn't do it right away, you could in 1-3 levels which represented growing into that aspect. So am I. RAW is that you need to find out from the DM what you can use. You cannot just assume that you can use something. There was no Strawman, because I did not attribute to you any particular argument and then try to refute it. I flat out refuted your incorrect assertion players could just choose anything they wanted that was in 5e by telling you what RAW said. I don't know why you assume stupid characters when the average PC will have a 12 int and therefore +1 skill point per level. And you can further take a feat to just get 5 skill points if you want. It's not going to be 5 levels in most cases. But here's the kicker. You don't need Shadowdancer to achieve "the plane of shadow gave me some sneaky/shadow abilities." If you opt to go for the hard one, you will have to work harder. It's your choice not to get a cool ability that isn't the shadowdancer prestige class. You are also ignoring story. Story isn't [B][B][I]POOF[/I][/B][/B] I'm now a Shadowdancer. Story is, "I gain a little bit here and a little bit there and grow over time into a Shadowdancer." Even if it takes you 5 levels(and it won't), that's still a valid and appropriate story change. The average fighter has a 12 int. 12 is the average of 4d6-L. You are deliberately giving the fighter a lower intelligence than he would have and that's not right. My 5e PHB says natural explorer. My 5e PHB says favored enemy. My 5e PHB has no blind fighting as an option. [/QUOTE]
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