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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7490479" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>In biblical studies, I primarily deal with archaeology (and archaeologists) as it pertains to the Bronze and Iron Age West Asia, though my own focus is obviously far less historical/archaeological and more literary and ideological. Nevertheless, many of my peers in archaeology have impressed upon me the nature of their work as well as the frustration of how their data says one thing - often something bare minimum - but people run into wild directions with it. Archaeology, genetics, and linguistics does not necessarily say what some people think that it says, particularly when each are used in isolation. Most academic papers in the field of archaeology document basic findings from their digsites rather than make grand sweeping historical and cultural reconstructions. Archaeologists are "strongly encouraged" to keep such speculations to a minimum in their papers: "digsite A used material X commonly found in region Zeta. But often one finds good archaeological evidence that gets historically reconstructed in bizarre ways, often when evidence is haphazardly applied for the sake of an agenda. </p><p></p><p>In regards to Norse culture, the archaeological, genetic, and linguistic studies paint a far more complex picture than the one would gather from your posts, which comes across as somewhat monolithic and simplistic. There are commonly cited genetic and archaeological studies, for example, that run counter to some of your claims, such as "<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982209016947" target="_blank">Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians</a>." </p><p></p><p>It's also difficult not to detect a Pan-Scandinavian political agenda in your posts that attempts to intentionally separate itself from anything that could be labeled as "Germanic." For example, who are these "Norse" who you claim "are the aborigines of Scandinavia, evidencing distinctive Nordic material cultures since the Stone Age"? Presumably you mean "yDNA I1" here, but that does not make the "Norse" the aboriginies of Scandinavia anymore than the English are the aboriginies of Britain due to the intermingled presence of pre-Anglo-Saxon haplogroups. Though saying "distinctive Nordic material cultures" is about like saying "distinctive American material cultures": it does not say much of substance nor does it imply a continuous or singular culture. And it is not like the Norse Scandinavians have no haplogroup links with substantial overlap with what are commonly regarded as "Germanic peoples" either. But you somehow seem to be treating this yDNA I1 haplogroup in itself as a culture when it is just a genetic marker. </p><p></p><p>The archaeological and genetic evidence suggests numerous genetic migrations into what we would eventually think of as "Norse Scandinavia." And the development of a proto-Germanic is likely linked to the blending and merging of various peoples in these areas, but it is also linked heavily with Scandinavia as well. So I don't think that one should make sweeping statements about some sort of imagined, unbroken line of "Norse" culture and its associated religious/spiritual worldview. I would recommend using the words "Norse" and "Nordic" with as much caution as you exercise with the words "German" and "Germanic." And I also think that it would be helpful not to pretend that Scaninavia is somehow divorced from genetic, cultural, linguistic, and historical links with the proto-Germanic cultures because, again, you come across as engaging in historical revisionism for the sake of a Pan-Scandinavian agenda.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7490479, member: 5142"] In biblical studies, I primarily deal with archaeology (and archaeologists) as it pertains to the Bronze and Iron Age West Asia, though my own focus is obviously far less historical/archaeological and more literary and ideological. Nevertheless, many of my peers in archaeology have impressed upon me the nature of their work as well as the frustration of how their data says one thing - often something bare minimum - but people run into wild directions with it. Archaeology, genetics, and linguistics does not necessarily say what some people think that it says, particularly when each are used in isolation. Most academic papers in the field of archaeology document basic findings from their digsites rather than make grand sweeping historical and cultural reconstructions. Archaeologists are "strongly encouraged" to keep such speculations to a minimum in their papers: "digsite A used material X commonly found in region Zeta. But often one finds good archaeological evidence that gets historically reconstructed in bizarre ways, often when evidence is haphazardly applied for the sake of an agenda. In regards to Norse culture, the archaeological, genetic, and linguistic studies paint a far more complex picture than the one would gather from your posts, which comes across as somewhat monolithic and simplistic. There are commonly cited genetic and archaeological studies, for example, that run counter to some of your claims, such as "[URL="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982209016947"]Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians[/URL]." It's also difficult not to detect a Pan-Scandinavian political agenda in your posts that attempts to intentionally separate itself from anything that could be labeled as "Germanic." For example, who are these "Norse" who you claim "are the aborigines of Scandinavia, evidencing distinctive Nordic material cultures since the Stone Age"? Presumably you mean "yDNA I1" here, but that does not make the "Norse" the aboriginies of Scandinavia anymore than the English are the aboriginies of Britain due to the intermingled presence of pre-Anglo-Saxon haplogroups. Though saying "distinctive Nordic material cultures" is about like saying "distinctive American material cultures": it does not say much of substance nor does it imply a continuous or singular culture. And it is not like the Norse Scandinavians have no haplogroup links with substantial overlap with what are commonly regarded as "Germanic peoples" either. But you somehow seem to be treating this yDNA I1 haplogroup in itself as a culture when it is just a genetic marker. The archaeological and genetic evidence suggests numerous genetic migrations into what we would eventually think of as "Norse Scandinavia." And the development of a proto-Germanic is likely linked to the blending and merging of various peoples in these areas, but it is also linked heavily with Scandinavia as well. So I don't think that one should make sweeping statements about some sort of imagined, unbroken line of "Norse" culture and its associated religious/spiritual worldview. I would recommend using the words "Norse" and "Nordic" with as much caution as you exercise with the words "German" and "Germanic." And I also think that it would be helpful not to pretend that Scaninavia is somehow divorced from genetic, cultural, linguistic, and historical links with the proto-Germanic cultures because, again, you come across as engaging in historical revisionism for the sake of a Pan-Scandinavian agenda. [/QUOTE]
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