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<blockquote data-quote="Wolf1066" data-source="post: 5148580" data-attributes="member: 88680"><p>Yep. So much stuff in there - in a usable format that is easy to work with. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep, so right.</p><p></p><p>I'm enjoying having reacquainted myself with FNFF2013. We played it years ago and the same GM also brought it across to a Traveller game we played. Rereading the rules again and doing a few side-by-side comparisons with FNFF2020, I far prefer a lot of the older system.</p><p></p><p>It didn't take much to convert the basic combat resolution across to my weird D20 system - it's a simple opposed task, for which I already had a system: each proficiency has a number value (left over from when I originally clumped ATTRIB+SKILL into the five trained/experienced proficiencies): Trainee/Novice = 5, Adept = 10, Expert = 15 and so on.</p><p></p><p>Instead of FNFF2013's </p><p></p><p>Attacker's REF + Weapon skill + 1D10 (or two if you get a critical success) vs Defender's REF + Athletics (or similar) + 1D10 (or two) (with each side adding positive or negative DMs as relevant)</p><p></p><p>it's</p><p></p><p>Attacker's Weapon Proficiency Value + 1D20 vs Defender's Defense Proficiency Value (athletics, dodge etc) + 1D20. With relevant modifiers, natch. </p><p></p><p>A single D10 would serve to sort out the contest between "equals" (Expert Handgun vs Expert Dodge) but I stuck with the D20 as it is a skill roll and we use D20s for skills <strong>and </strong>it allows a Novice to have a (slim) fighting chance against a Guru (PV=20)</p><p></p><p>I much prefer FNFF2013's opposed combat to FNFF2020's "target shooting" with a couple of small negative modifiers if the target is evading... regardless of how skilled at evasion the target might be.</p><p></p><p>I'm working on bringing in "Called Shots" for 2013 - with suitably realistic DMs for shooting in the general direction of head or torso (not limbs) at various ranges.</p><p></p><p>I did not keep FNFF2013's "add the amount by which you exceed your opponent to the damage" rule (which is eerily absent from 2020 rules) but then, I'm using significantly higher weapon damages (which 2020 doesn't). .45ACP is 2D6+5 at Point blank in my games.</p><p></p><p>Like 2013, projectile damage decreases with distance.</p><p></p><p>I'm still nutting out the bludgeon damage at the moment - I find 2013's "divide killing damage by 5" makes things rather weak (especially given a club only does 1D6 + any strength and "To Hit" bonuses - a properly-wielded club should do up to Critical Damage to internal organs without so much as puncturing the skin) and I find the CP2020 rules ludicrously over-powered - they dropped the "divide by five" rule but left in the "add your martial arts level to the damage", making a Thai kick-boxer effectively more powerful than a .38 - as Luciferin so adeptly illustrated.</p><p></p><p>My primary thoughts on the matter are: once you've learned how to punch or kick properly and transfer your energy effectively and stably, you are not going to get any more deadly no matter how many coloured belts you get. Most of us can't punch for peanuts. Any boxer, seasoned brawler or martial artist is going to learn how to use their body to its best advantage when delivering a blow. They will learn that fairly early on. Therefore, any trained fighter above a certain level of proficiency is going to be doing the maximum damage with hands and/or feet that they are ever going to do. All they are doing past that point is learning new techniques for avoiding being hit while ensuring they can hit and becoming more practised at delivering their damage consistently.</p><p></p><p>Aside from that, still juggling numbers and trying to work out what are reasonable damage levels for average cf strong; untrained cf trained hand-to-hand or melee combatants.</p><p></p><p>And praying I get it sorted before one of my players decides to use his or her brawling or melee skills in-game...</p><p></p><p>Back to the combats and wounds.</p><p></p><p>Love the Wound Table and Cumulative Wound Table of FNFF2013 - no subtracting BTMs from damage and ticking off boxes, just look up the number on the table, track across to the Body Type and Voila! That's how wounded you are. After your next wound, look up your current wound state and track across to your new wound and see where it puts you - two Serious wounds put you at Mortally wounded, anything worse than that kills you outright! YEAH! Three words:</p><p></p><p>Don't </p><p></p><p>Get</p><p></p><p>Shot!</p><p></p><p>At least flesh wounds don't accumulate.</p><p></p><p>Far more deadly than 2020 in some ways - but also harder to hit, harder to be hit as well.</p><p></p><p>Then there's secondary damage where you could lose limbs and eyes etc.</p><p></p><p>There are good points in both the fighting styles - FNFF2013 does not allow you to snap off shots in the vicinity of a person's Centre of Mass or head ("Called Shots") - something that trained people do in real life - even with an increased chance of missing altogether. FNFF2020 does - albeit with a standard small modifier regardless of range.</p><p></p><p>I've gone a stage further: If you miss a called shot, you use the rules as for a thrown grenade to see if it hits higher or lower or misses altogether. "Well, you missed his head but got him in the guts..."</p><p></p><p>Just a bit more controlled than every shot having a good chance of hitting a leg.</p><p></p><p>I've also adopted the idea that you have to pass a COOL check (factoring in your current stress, fatigue etc) before you can make a called shot otherwise you revert to purely random snap-shots.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wolf1066, post: 5148580, member: 88680"] Yep. So much stuff in there - in a usable format that is easy to work with. Yep, so right. I'm enjoying having reacquainted myself with FNFF2013. We played it years ago and the same GM also brought it across to a Traveller game we played. Rereading the rules again and doing a few side-by-side comparisons with FNFF2020, I far prefer a lot of the older system. It didn't take much to convert the basic combat resolution across to my weird D20 system - it's a simple opposed task, for which I already had a system: each proficiency has a number value (left over from when I originally clumped ATTRIB+SKILL into the five trained/experienced proficiencies): Trainee/Novice = 5, Adept = 10, Expert = 15 and so on. Instead of FNFF2013's Attacker's REF + Weapon skill + 1D10 (or two if you get a critical success) vs Defender's REF + Athletics (or similar) + 1D10 (or two) (with each side adding positive or negative DMs as relevant) it's Attacker's Weapon Proficiency Value + 1D20 vs Defender's Defense Proficiency Value (athletics, dodge etc) + 1D20. With relevant modifiers, natch. A single D10 would serve to sort out the contest between "equals" (Expert Handgun vs Expert Dodge) but I stuck with the D20 as it is a skill roll and we use D20s for skills [B]and [/B]it allows a Novice to have a (slim) fighting chance against a Guru (PV=20) I much prefer FNFF2013's opposed combat to FNFF2020's "target shooting" with a couple of small negative modifiers if the target is evading... regardless of how skilled at evasion the target might be. I'm working on bringing in "Called Shots" for 2013 - with suitably realistic DMs for shooting in the general direction of head or torso (not limbs) at various ranges. I did not keep FNFF2013's "add the amount by which you exceed your opponent to the damage" rule (which is eerily absent from 2020 rules) but then, I'm using significantly higher weapon damages (which 2020 doesn't). .45ACP is 2D6+5 at Point blank in my games. Like 2013, projectile damage decreases with distance. I'm still nutting out the bludgeon damage at the moment - I find 2013's "divide killing damage by 5" makes things rather weak (especially given a club only does 1D6 + any strength and "To Hit" bonuses - a properly-wielded club should do up to Critical Damage to internal organs without so much as puncturing the skin) and I find the CP2020 rules ludicrously over-powered - they dropped the "divide by five" rule but left in the "add your martial arts level to the damage", making a Thai kick-boxer effectively more powerful than a .38 - as Luciferin so adeptly illustrated. My primary thoughts on the matter are: once you've learned how to punch or kick properly and transfer your energy effectively and stably, you are not going to get any more deadly no matter how many coloured belts you get. Most of us can't punch for peanuts. Any boxer, seasoned brawler or martial artist is going to learn how to use their body to its best advantage when delivering a blow. They will learn that fairly early on. Therefore, any trained fighter above a certain level of proficiency is going to be doing the maximum damage with hands and/or feet that they are ever going to do. All they are doing past that point is learning new techniques for avoiding being hit while ensuring they can hit and becoming more practised at delivering their damage consistently. Aside from that, still juggling numbers and trying to work out what are reasonable damage levels for average cf strong; untrained cf trained hand-to-hand or melee combatants. And praying I get it sorted before one of my players decides to use his or her brawling or melee skills in-game... Back to the combats and wounds. Love the Wound Table and Cumulative Wound Table of FNFF2013 - no subtracting BTMs from damage and ticking off boxes, just look up the number on the table, track across to the Body Type and Voila! That's how wounded you are. After your next wound, look up your current wound state and track across to your new wound and see where it puts you - two Serious wounds put you at Mortally wounded, anything worse than that kills you outright! YEAH! Three words: Don't Get Shot! At least flesh wounds don't accumulate. Far more deadly than 2020 in some ways - but also harder to hit, harder to be hit as well. Then there's secondary damage where you could lose limbs and eyes etc. There are good points in both the fighting styles - FNFF2013 does not allow you to snap off shots in the vicinity of a person's Centre of Mass or head ("Called Shots") - something that trained people do in real life - even with an increased chance of missing altogether. FNFF2020 does - albeit with a standard small modifier regardless of range. I've gone a stage further: If you miss a called shot, you use the rules as for a thrown grenade to see if it hits higher or lower or misses altogether. "Well, you missed his head but got him in the guts..." Just a bit more controlled than every shot having a good chance of hitting a leg. I've also adopted the idea that you have to pass a COOL check (factoring in your current stress, fatigue etc) before you can make a called shot otherwise you revert to purely random snap-shots. [/QUOTE]
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