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Not exactly Cyberpunk 2020
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<blockquote data-quote="Wolf1066" data-source="post: 5150348" data-attributes="member: 88680"><p><strong>Armour, and why I <u><em>really </em></u>need to get bludgeon damage sorted Real Soon Now...</strong></p><p></p><p>In the Real World, body armour does actually stop bullets dead.</p><p></p><p>Well, within its rated level, anyway.</p><p></p><p>In Cyberpunk, the rules are kind of shaky and the armour SP values do not reflect Real-World levels of protection.</p><p></p><p>I decided that for this campaign, the armour would be based on Real World armour levels and SP (required for working out how much damage gets through when struck by a weapon for which the armour was not designed) should be calculated accordingly.</p><p></p><p>Before we start, I'll point out that I reworked the damage levels of weapons based on Rogue's alternative damage values (which were in turn based on Luciferin's work), taking Rogue's values as "Point Blank" damage and decreasing damage over distance a la FNFF2013. (A great way to show the differences between different types/weights of bullet within the same calibre, BTW, if anyone wanted to get that detailed.)</p><p></p><p>As I don't use FNFF2013's "add the amount you beat your opponent by to the weapon damage" rule, which made added to the amount of damage a 2D6 weapon could do, I figure it's right to increase the damage level of the weapons to compensate for that loss. (Something FNFF2020 failed to do when they dropped the "add to damage" rule, thus enabling people to take loads of wounds from firearms and still shrug them off like Arnold Terminator.) No need to "subtract from this then add to that" and the weapons pack punch again.</p><p></p><p>Then I consulted my notes on armour levels and the threats they are designed to <strong>stop</strong>.</p><p></p><p>Based on Real World images/video of Richard Davis ("Second Chance" Armour) shooting <strong>himself </strong>in the torso - about as "point blank" as it gets, Choomba! - I've made the assumption that the armour levels refer to testing at point blank range. I may be wrong about this regarding the higher levels' abilities to stop high-powered rifle bullets (they may be tested at a greater "minimum range") but it really doesn't matter a lot.</p><p></p><p>So, a given level of vest should stop the maximum possible damage of the most powerful calibre for which it is rated.</p><p></p><p>Conversely, other calibres stopped by the armour may not be more powerful than the most powerful calibre for which the armour is rated - an important point as Rogue did not include .22 - arguably the most common rifle calibre on the planet - in the list of rifle calibres. .22 was included in pistol calibres but a .22 rifle is a lot more deadly than a .22 pistol.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, the damage levels were set for pistols - not longer barreled submachineguns. (My players might not be allowed to have 'em, but criminals tend to disregard the laws...) Knowing what calibres are stopped by various levels of armour helped with setting the damage values for 9mm and .45 SMG (by far the most common SMG calibres).</p><p></p><p>So, we wind up with:</p><p></p><p>A) a list of armour types from Level I up to Level IV, each with an SP value slightly higher than that of a specific weapon's maximum possible damage at point blank range (feeling really glad now that I did not keep FNFF2013's "added damage" rule, it'd be a nightmare to work out!)</p><p></p><p>B) a list of additional calibres not found in Rogue's work that do around the same amount of damage as comparable handguns/rifles.</p><p></p><p>C) a great need to sort out bludgeon damage rules ASAP.</p><p></p><p>So, the armour stops the bullet dead. Great. Excellent.</p><p></p><p>Except it has not been "stopped dead" it has been prevented from penetrating by being spread across a greater area. You still have, in the case of a 9mm at point blank range, 2D6+5 points of damage slamming into you. Muhammad Ali probably didn't hit that hard (I don't know, I'll find out when I finish working out bludgeon damage).</p><p></p><p>So, presumably subtracting a little for dispersion of energy (energy loss), I need to work out what that approx 2D6 of bludgeon damage does.</p><p></p><p>I don't agree with FNFF2013's "divide by 5" rule - I've run the numbers and it seems inordinately weak.</p><p></p><p>FNFF2020 has no such rule, bringing the actual damage from bludgeoning up but making the damage done by a martial artist ludicrously strong (by failing to adapt a 2013 rule that relied on "divide by five" to make it less devastating. Idiots!)</p><p></p><p>So, I've got my work cut out for me making a cohesive bludgeon damage system.</p><p></p><p>OK, buy the right armour and you can stop anything up to high-powered rifle! Sweeeeeet!</p><p></p><p>Except: Encumberance Value.</p><p></p><p>And, thanks to Ianus Games, heat stress.</p><p></p><p>I'm giving the armour progressively higher EV and HV. You can wear it, but for how long in this heatwave?</p><p></p><p>In Real Life armour is readily - and fairly inexpensively - available. Why aren't all the gang-bangers or average citizens wandering around in it at all times? Many people on this site undoubtedly live in the USA which has more lenient firearms laws than we have here and none of the people I know in the USA routinely wears body armour to work. Here in New Zealand the gangs and other criminals ignore the firearms laws and have illegal firearms which they use - yet no one I know outside of the police force wears a bullet-proof vest. And body armour's not a lot more expensive here than overseas.</p><p></p><p>So in my campaign: armour will be available, it will stop the bullets penetrating (but not bludgeon damage) and it will slow 'em down and heat 'em up.</p><p></p><p>If they want to lessen the bludgeoning damage a bit, they could buy a Sorbothane Blunt Trauma pad for under the armour - at increased EV and HV, of course.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wolf1066, post: 5150348, member: 88680"] [B]Armour, and why I [U][I]really [/I][/U]need to get bludgeon damage sorted Real Soon Now...[/B] In the Real World, body armour does actually stop bullets dead. Well, within its rated level, anyway. In Cyberpunk, the rules are kind of shaky and the armour SP values do not reflect Real-World levels of protection. I decided that for this campaign, the armour would be based on Real World armour levels and SP (required for working out how much damage gets through when struck by a weapon for which the armour was not designed) should be calculated accordingly. Before we start, I'll point out that I reworked the damage levels of weapons based on Rogue's alternative damage values (which were in turn based on Luciferin's work), taking Rogue's values as "Point Blank" damage and decreasing damage over distance a la FNFF2013. (A great way to show the differences between different types/weights of bullet within the same calibre, BTW, if anyone wanted to get that detailed.) As I don't use FNFF2013's "add the amount you beat your opponent by to the weapon damage" rule, which made added to the amount of damage a 2D6 weapon could do, I figure it's right to increase the damage level of the weapons to compensate for that loss. (Something FNFF2020 failed to do when they dropped the "add to damage" rule, thus enabling people to take loads of wounds from firearms and still shrug them off like Arnold Terminator.) No need to "subtract from this then add to that" and the weapons pack punch again. Then I consulted my notes on armour levels and the threats they are designed to [B]stop[/B]. Based on Real World images/video of Richard Davis ("Second Chance" Armour) shooting [B]himself [/B]in the torso - about as "point blank" as it gets, Choomba! - I've made the assumption that the armour levels refer to testing at point blank range. I may be wrong about this regarding the higher levels' abilities to stop high-powered rifle bullets (they may be tested at a greater "minimum range") but it really doesn't matter a lot. So, a given level of vest should stop the maximum possible damage of the most powerful calibre for which it is rated. Conversely, other calibres stopped by the armour may not be more powerful than the most powerful calibre for which the armour is rated - an important point as Rogue did not include .22 - arguably the most common rifle calibre on the planet - in the list of rifle calibres. .22 was included in pistol calibres but a .22 rifle is a lot more deadly than a .22 pistol. Likewise, the damage levels were set for pistols - not longer barreled submachineguns. (My players might not be allowed to have 'em, but criminals tend to disregard the laws...) Knowing what calibres are stopped by various levels of armour helped with setting the damage values for 9mm and .45 SMG (by far the most common SMG calibres). So, we wind up with: A) a list of armour types from Level I up to Level IV, each with an SP value slightly higher than that of a specific weapon's maximum possible damage at point blank range (feeling really glad now that I did not keep FNFF2013's "added damage" rule, it'd be a nightmare to work out!) B) a list of additional calibres not found in Rogue's work that do around the same amount of damage as comparable handguns/rifles. C) a great need to sort out bludgeon damage rules ASAP. So, the armour stops the bullet dead. Great. Excellent. Except it has not been "stopped dead" it has been prevented from penetrating by being spread across a greater area. You still have, in the case of a 9mm at point blank range, 2D6+5 points of damage slamming into you. Muhammad Ali probably didn't hit that hard (I don't know, I'll find out when I finish working out bludgeon damage). So, presumably subtracting a little for dispersion of energy (energy loss), I need to work out what that approx 2D6 of bludgeon damage does. I don't agree with FNFF2013's "divide by 5" rule - I've run the numbers and it seems inordinately weak. FNFF2020 has no such rule, bringing the actual damage from bludgeoning up but making the damage done by a martial artist ludicrously strong (by failing to adapt a 2013 rule that relied on "divide by five" to make it less devastating. Idiots!) So, I've got my work cut out for me making a cohesive bludgeon damage system. OK, buy the right armour and you can stop anything up to high-powered rifle! Sweeeeeet! Except: Encumberance Value. And, thanks to Ianus Games, heat stress. I'm giving the armour progressively higher EV and HV. You can wear it, but for how long in this heatwave? In Real Life armour is readily - and fairly inexpensively - available. Why aren't all the gang-bangers or average citizens wandering around in it at all times? Many people on this site undoubtedly live in the USA which has more lenient firearms laws than we have here and none of the people I know in the USA routinely wears body armour to work. Here in New Zealand the gangs and other criminals ignore the firearms laws and have illegal firearms which they use - yet no one I know outside of the police force wears a bullet-proof vest. And body armour's not a lot more expensive here than overseas. So in my campaign: armour will be available, it will stop the bullets penetrating (but not bludgeon damage) and it will slow 'em down and heat 'em up. If they want to lessen the bludgeoning damage a bit, they could buy a Sorbothane Blunt Trauma pad for under the armour - at increased EV and HV, of course. [/QUOTE]
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