Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Not exactly Cyberpunk 2020
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Wolf1066" data-source="post: 5174925" data-attributes="member: 88680"><p>OK, numerous ballistics reports later, and quite a few calculations, I have come to the conclusion that the muzzle energy of a standard shotgun is <strong>not </strong>ten times the muzzle energy of a .45ACP or nine times that of a 9mm SMG. It <em>is </em>close to twice that of a 5.56/.223 rifle, however.</p><p></p><p>Using Rogue's figure of 3D12+2 for a 5.56, that would give 6D12+4 - still pretty devastating, obviously. The same report that made the comparison between 12ga and .223 also described the individual 00 shot as being akin to a .22 bullet travelling in excess of 1000fps.</p><p></p><p>Rogue gives the .22lr pistol around 2D8+2 damage, nine times which is not much more than 6D12+4, so the comparison would work reasonably well in game.</p><p></p><p>The ballistic tables I've seen shows an individual pellet's energy dropping quite quickly the further it is from the muzzle - not too surprising considering it is not as ballistically stable as a bullet.</p><p></p><p>Working with a starting point of 6D12+4 at the muzzle, dropping to either 2D4 or 1D6+2 <strong>per pellet </strong>(same maximum damage as 6D12 for all nine pellets) beyond 3m when the clump starts separating out and dropping in stages beyond that.</p><p></p><p>Makes a 12ga shotgun the most devastating and lethal thing you can be hit with at close range in the game - worse than a .50 sniper rifle and far easier to weild in a tight area - but that is rather well borne out in real life with its 98% one stop shot record.</p><p></p><p>By tonight I should have a table with different ranges marked on it and should be able to just look across to see what to roll to determine how many pellets hit and what damage to roll for each of them.</p><p></p><p>"Rifled" slug is going to be far easier to work out - starting from 6D12+4 at the muzzle and then gradually getting weaker...</p><p></p><p>Too lethal? Too much firepower? I don't think so. It's in keeping with the other weapon damages and it is also limited in effectiveness - a pistol is deadlier at longer ranges.</p><p></p><p>The mean streets of my game have just gotten a lot meaner.</p><p></p><p>According to the real-life specs for Type III armour, it stops 12ga rifled slug - presumably at point-blank close range.</p><p></p><p>At 6D12+4 - 10 to 76 points of damage - a 12ga slug up close 'n' personal is capable of exceeding the 42 SP I've calculated for Type III-A armour (based on maximum damages for the rifles listed).</p><p></p><p>Two options are open: one is to redefine the SP of level III-A to be around 76 points, the other is to just leave the SP as it is - killing damage and penetrating ability are not one and the same. The killing damage of a one-ounce chunk of lead may well be a lot higher than that of a 180gr FMJ, but that pointed FMJ is going to be better at penetrating armour than a blunt .73" diameter lump of lead. Armour that will stop a high-speed hard pointed bullet should stop the slower, blunter, squishier lead slug - regardless of how much more damage said slug does to unarmoured tissue.</p><p></p><p>I'm inclined to leave the SP as it is for ease of calculating damage done by AP rounds and just put the stopping of lead slugs down to the differences between the projectiles.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wolf1066, post: 5174925, member: 88680"] OK, numerous ballistics reports later, and quite a few calculations, I have come to the conclusion that the muzzle energy of a standard shotgun is [B]not [/B]ten times the muzzle energy of a .45ACP or nine times that of a 9mm SMG. It [I]is [/I]close to twice that of a 5.56/.223 rifle, however. Using Rogue's figure of 3D12+2 for a 5.56, that would give 6D12+4 - still pretty devastating, obviously. The same report that made the comparison between 12ga and .223 also described the individual 00 shot as being akin to a .22 bullet travelling in excess of 1000fps. Rogue gives the .22lr pistol around 2D8+2 damage, nine times which is not much more than 6D12+4, so the comparison would work reasonably well in game. The ballistic tables I've seen shows an individual pellet's energy dropping quite quickly the further it is from the muzzle - not too surprising considering it is not as ballistically stable as a bullet. Working with a starting point of 6D12+4 at the muzzle, dropping to either 2D4 or 1D6+2 [B]per pellet [/B](same maximum damage as 6D12 for all nine pellets) beyond 3m when the clump starts separating out and dropping in stages beyond that. Makes a 12ga shotgun the most devastating and lethal thing you can be hit with at close range in the game - worse than a .50 sniper rifle and far easier to weild in a tight area - but that is rather well borne out in real life with its 98% one stop shot record. By tonight I should have a table with different ranges marked on it and should be able to just look across to see what to roll to determine how many pellets hit and what damage to roll for each of them. "Rifled" slug is going to be far easier to work out - starting from 6D12+4 at the muzzle and then gradually getting weaker... Too lethal? Too much firepower? I don't think so. It's in keeping with the other weapon damages and it is also limited in effectiveness - a pistol is deadlier at longer ranges. The mean streets of my game have just gotten a lot meaner. According to the real-life specs for Type III armour, it stops 12ga rifled slug - presumably at point-blank close range. At 6D12+4 - 10 to 76 points of damage - a 12ga slug up close 'n' personal is capable of exceeding the 42 SP I've calculated for Type III-A armour (based on maximum damages for the rifles listed). Two options are open: one is to redefine the SP of level III-A to be around 76 points, the other is to just leave the SP as it is - killing damage and penetrating ability are not one and the same. The killing damage of a one-ounce chunk of lead may well be a lot higher than that of a 180gr FMJ, but that pointed FMJ is going to be better at penetrating armour than a blunt .73" diameter lump of lead. Armour that will stop a high-speed hard pointed bullet should stop the slower, blunter, squishier lead slug - regardless of how much more damage said slug does to unarmoured tissue. I'm inclined to leave the SP as it is for ease of calculating damage done by AP rounds and just put the stopping of lead slugs down to the differences between the projectiles. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Not exactly Cyberpunk 2020
Top