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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 273704" data-attributes="member: 2013"><p><strong>My thoughts...</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the issue is the same either way... it's simply "do I spend time and money" to pull this. A repository for developers is likely to become a repository for end-users fairly quickly - I don't think the developers can pick and choose without setting off the community. Either that, or we'll see a mass of 1-page PDFs so people can say, "I'm a publisher." Whereever you draw the line, people will be unhappy.</p><p></p><p>I may be in the minority, but I have seen evidence that publishers ARE willing to do this once product sales tail off to next-to-nothing. At this point, IMO, they have little to lose. I will let publishers speak for themselves, but I have to think that products like Legions of Hell and the Creature Collection (vol I) really don't sell too much any more.</p><p></p><p>Given that even the publishers seem to be very community-minded and have a conscientious sense of building the community, I would honestly be very surprised if most publishers said, "I won't take part." I expect them to say, "I'll take part on my own schedule, putting a delay between the release of my product on shelves and adding it to the OGC repository" but that's nothing more than good business and I doubt anyone will begrudge them that... just as long as OGC is released in a little more timely fashion than the SRD. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>IOW, I don't expect to see OGC from "the latest and greatest" products in the repository - I do hope we see OGC from "the tried and true classics" in the repository. </p><p></p><p>There is something to be said for that too... don't have much to add/discuss here so I won't.</p><p></p><p>Again, if you release OGC into the repository once your sales are down to negligible, it's basically impossible to hurt your sales.</p><p></p><p>Not really... provided you assume a "delay." Let us take your example of the SS Magic System. Let us assume for a moment that sales of the SS Campaign Setting Book (which has all of the rules needed to run the Magic System) have ground basically to a halt. Sure, you will get a residual sale now and again, but by and large, everyone who wanted to buy your product has a copy. </p><p></p><p>You can release more "Books o' SS Spells" but they appeal to a limited audience - those who already have the SSCS. This means by definition you limit your market on BoSSS to those who have the means to purchase both the SSCS and the BoSSS.</p><p></p><p>Since the SSCS isn't really selling any more anyway, you add your Magic System to the repository as OGC. This is like Free Advertising and it doesn't cut into your sales (since you're no longer making sales on the SSCS, there are no sales to cut into).</p><p></p><p>NOW you release your BoSSS. Who is your audience now? The entire RPGing community... because they can go get the basic system for free off the web. Now instead of limiting potential buyers to those who can afford both the SSCS and the BoSSS, your potential buyers become those who can afford the BoSSS, regardless of whether or not they can afford the SSCS as well. It goes without saying that this is a much larger market.</p><p></p><p>There - a simple business case that (I hope) makes it clear why it makes business sense to add to a freely available OGC repository. The only thing you have to do is give publishers some "lag time" to sell their products in the first place before they add to the repository, and there is no business reason not to. I think most of them already have the moral/ethical/emotional desire to add to such a thing to help the community. Now, they can't do it immediately or it's financial suicide.</p><p></p><p>IOW, if you allow publishers to have their product on the shelf for a while (a year? two? I don't pretend to the sales:time curve for every publisher) before they add their stuff to the repository, I really have a hard time coming up with a case AGAINST an OGC repository for a publisher.</p><p></p><p>Obviously, for the "end-user" this would also be an incredible boon - over time, you could pull rules and such from a number of different sources, suited to your campaign world, without having to spend money on every supplement out there. I think most of us are willing to pay for nicely formatted and illustrated books. I think most of us are willing to pay to have it "now" rather than wait a year or two before it is added to the repository. But such a repository means that perhaps we find something we really like that we wouldn't have found otherwise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree - it IS inevitable. If the publishing community gets its act together, then they can have some say in how stuff is added, they can put their ads on it, and so on. In other words, it becomes a tool for them. If the publishers "play nice" and show they are willing to contribute given some parameters (such as a delay), it will be the premiere OGC site on the net, and the gaming community will support it.</p><p></p><p>If they DON'T jump on board, it will probably come to resemble Napster... stuff will be added a day or two after its release and severely undercut sales - but the publishing community will have a harder time shutting the place down (especially if the proprietors do their OGL homework - in which case the publishers may not be able to do anything at all)! The publishers will be frustrated because the thing will be out of their hands and so they'll declare only the bare minimum as OGC. The community will be frustrated by the "evil publishing giants" trying to squelch OGC. The cycle worsens. Perception is reality.</p><p></p><p>Basically, I think that it's gonna happen and there are really only 2 ways for publishers to go on this...</p><p></p><p>1.) Support a community/site and retain some measure of goodwill with the community and control of their material.</p><p></p><p>2.) Don't support it and get run into the ground - either due to their material winding up on a "Napster-esque" site so quickly that they can't turn a profit or due to consumer backlash when they act to reduce OGC and/or kill the site.</p><p></p><p>To be honest, I think most publishers DO want to see a repository - and they do want a little control over what goes into it. It only makes sense for them to do #1. The question is, will they do it soon enough to avoid #2? I'm not trying to sound doomsday-ish, I'm just trying to be realistic.</p><p></p><p>My 2 cents (and then some)... everyone else feel free to jump in. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>--The Sigil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 273704, member: 2013"] [b]My thoughts...[/b] I think the issue is the same either way... it's simply "do I spend time and money" to pull this. A repository for developers is likely to become a repository for end-users fairly quickly - I don't think the developers can pick and choose without setting off the community. Either that, or we'll see a mass of 1-page PDFs so people can say, "I'm a publisher." Whereever you draw the line, people will be unhappy. I may be in the minority, but I have seen evidence that publishers ARE willing to do this once product sales tail off to next-to-nothing. At this point, IMO, they have little to lose. I will let publishers speak for themselves, but I have to think that products like Legions of Hell and the Creature Collection (vol I) really don't sell too much any more. Given that even the publishers seem to be very community-minded and have a conscientious sense of building the community, I would honestly be very surprised if most publishers said, "I won't take part." I expect them to say, "I'll take part on my own schedule, putting a delay between the release of my product on shelves and adding it to the OGC repository" but that's nothing more than good business and I doubt anyone will begrudge them that... just as long as OGC is released in a little more timely fashion than the SRD. :D IOW, I don't expect to see OGC from "the latest and greatest" products in the repository - I do hope we see OGC from "the tried and true classics" in the repository. There is something to be said for that too... don't have much to add/discuss here so I won't. Again, if you release OGC into the repository once your sales are down to negligible, it's basically impossible to hurt your sales. Not really... provided you assume a "delay." Let us take your example of the SS Magic System. Let us assume for a moment that sales of the SS Campaign Setting Book (which has all of the rules needed to run the Magic System) have ground basically to a halt. Sure, you will get a residual sale now and again, but by and large, everyone who wanted to buy your product has a copy. You can release more "Books o' SS Spells" but they appeal to a limited audience - those who already have the SSCS. This means by definition you limit your market on BoSSS to those who have the means to purchase both the SSCS and the BoSSS. Since the SSCS isn't really selling any more anyway, you add your Magic System to the repository as OGC. This is like Free Advertising and it doesn't cut into your sales (since you're no longer making sales on the SSCS, there are no sales to cut into). NOW you release your BoSSS. Who is your audience now? The entire RPGing community... because they can go get the basic system for free off the web. Now instead of limiting potential buyers to those who can afford both the SSCS and the BoSSS, your potential buyers become those who can afford the BoSSS, regardless of whether or not they can afford the SSCS as well. It goes without saying that this is a much larger market. There - a simple business case that (I hope) makes it clear why it makes business sense to add to a freely available OGC repository. The only thing you have to do is give publishers some "lag time" to sell their products in the first place before they add to the repository, and there is no business reason not to. I think most of them already have the moral/ethical/emotional desire to add to such a thing to help the community. Now, they can't do it immediately or it's financial suicide. IOW, if you allow publishers to have their product on the shelf for a while (a year? two? I don't pretend to the sales:time curve for every publisher) before they add their stuff to the repository, I really have a hard time coming up with a case AGAINST an OGC repository for a publisher. Obviously, for the "end-user" this would also be an incredible boon - over time, you could pull rules and such from a number of different sources, suited to your campaign world, without having to spend money on every supplement out there. I think most of us are willing to pay for nicely formatted and illustrated books. I think most of us are willing to pay to have it "now" rather than wait a year or two before it is added to the repository. But such a repository means that perhaps we find something we really like that we wouldn't have found otherwise. I agree - it IS inevitable. If the publishing community gets its act together, then they can have some say in how stuff is added, they can put their ads on it, and so on. In other words, it becomes a tool for them. If the publishers "play nice" and show they are willing to contribute given some parameters (such as a delay), it will be the premiere OGC site on the net, and the gaming community will support it. If they DON'T jump on board, it will probably come to resemble Napster... stuff will be added a day or two after its release and severely undercut sales - but the publishing community will have a harder time shutting the place down (especially if the proprietors do their OGL homework - in which case the publishers may not be able to do anything at all)! The publishers will be frustrated because the thing will be out of their hands and so they'll declare only the bare minimum as OGC. The community will be frustrated by the "evil publishing giants" trying to squelch OGC. The cycle worsens. Perception is reality. Basically, I think that it's gonna happen and there are really only 2 ways for publishers to go on this... 1.) Support a community/site and retain some measure of goodwill with the community and control of their material. 2.) Don't support it and get run into the ground - either due to their material winding up on a "Napster-esque" site so quickly that they can't turn a profit or due to consumer backlash when they act to reduce OGC and/or kill the site. To be honest, I think most publishers DO want to see a repository - and they do want a little control over what goes into it. It only makes sense for them to do #1. The question is, will they do it soon enough to avoid #2? I'm not trying to sound doomsday-ish, I'm just trying to be realistic. My 2 cents (and then some)... everyone else feel free to jump in. :) --The Sigil [/QUOTE]
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