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Old School : Tucker's Kobolds and Trained Jellies
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5840734" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>This is what feats are for aren't they? I mean, the exact things you're looking for exist as feats in 4e. Well that's not entirely true. They don't usually trigger on "improvised" abilities. But, again, I'm not entirely sure how improvised you have to be to be considered "improvised".</p><p></p><p>Given that a 4e character, out of the box, at say, 7th level, has about 10 or 12 different abilities that he can choose from at any given point of time, and each of those abilities can do something different, I'm thinking that most characters have one heck of a big box. (I can't believe I just wrote that <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> )</p><p></p><p>See, this is where I'm really having problems. Sure, going outside the box is easy when you have a tiny little box that the rules cover. Heck, <em>swimming</em> is an out of the box action in some versions of D&D. Do we really consider swimming to be creative play?</p><p></p><p>The problem is, every edition of D&D has had rules that cover more situations than the edition previous. Sometimes more complicated, sometimes just broader - but always covering more situations and more broadly applicable. Thus, the bar for "out of the box" thinking keeps getting set higher and higher. But, that's only a problem if you consider "out of the box" thinking to be a goal in and of itself.</p><p></p><p>To me, just because the rules cover a given action, doesn't mean that that action is no longer creative. Sure, using an immovable bar in 2e to trip something was creative. Neat use of the item. But, it is no less creative in 3e to do <u>exactly the same thing</u> despite the fact that we now have mechanics in place to adjudicate a trip attack.</p><p></p><p>It's the tripping with an immovable rod part that is creative, not the mechanics used to resolve the action.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5840734, member: 22779"] This is what feats are for aren't they? I mean, the exact things you're looking for exist as feats in 4e. Well that's not entirely true. They don't usually trigger on "improvised" abilities. But, again, I'm not entirely sure how improvised you have to be to be considered "improvised". Given that a 4e character, out of the box, at say, 7th level, has about 10 or 12 different abilities that he can choose from at any given point of time, and each of those abilities can do something different, I'm thinking that most characters have one heck of a big box. (I can't believe I just wrote that :D ) See, this is where I'm really having problems. Sure, going outside the box is easy when you have a tiny little box that the rules cover. Heck, [i]swimming[/i] is an out of the box action in some versions of D&D. Do we really consider swimming to be creative play? The problem is, every edition of D&D has had rules that cover more situations than the edition previous. Sometimes more complicated, sometimes just broader - but always covering more situations and more broadly applicable. Thus, the bar for "out of the box" thinking keeps getting set higher and higher. But, that's only a problem if you consider "out of the box" thinking to be a goal in and of itself. To me, just because the rules cover a given action, doesn't mean that that action is no longer creative. Sure, using an immovable bar in 2e to trip something was creative. Neat use of the item. But, it is no less creative in 3e to do [u]exactly the same thing[/u] despite the fact that we now have mechanics in place to adjudicate a trip attack. It's the tripping with an immovable rod part that is creative, not the mechanics used to resolve the action. [/QUOTE]
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