Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On character wealth an d game balance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7094835" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>No such simple scale exists, because there is no good conversion between money and utility. Even assuming such a scale could exist, it would first require you to tweak the existing magic item cost/magic item creation system so that items were well balanced according to price. And even then, you would need an assumption that players had the will and ability to maximize their utility given the resources that they have. And that requires that you have fungible wealth, meaning that whatever the players find, they can freely convert it into the items that have the most utility for their character.</p><p></p><p>For example, supposing that magical weapon prices are well balanced, the part discovers a two-handed sword +5 - worth ~50,000 g.p. If the party contains a two-handed weapon wielder like a barbarian or a fighter specialized in the two-handed sword, then that additional wealth does reflect additional party capability. But if the party is entirely spell-casters without martial weapon proficiency, then the weapon represents a great influx of wealth on paper, but in practice little or no increase in their capabilities as a party. </p><p></p><p>The situation gets worse with respect to items that are poorly costed which includes pretty much any use activated item that grants a spell effect or buff that is probably underleveled - fly and invisibility come to mind immediately, but there are many others. In particular, watch out for buffs that last rounds when cast as a spell, but become permanent when in an item, or buffs that are quickened when on an item (free actions). They are all undercosted in stock 3.X, because stock 3.X doesn't price in the value of increasing the duration of a spell. And of course, there are items where the cost system works fairly well, but are circumstantially broken- the most famous of which is the wand of cure light wounds. </p><p></p><p>Depending on what exactly the wealth translates into, you get completely different adventuring utility. If the PC's inherit a cabbage farm, a cottage, a cart, a mule, and two oxen, that might add up to a magic item in value, but not in (immediate) utility. Equally obviously once it's stated but perhaps more easily overlooked, if the PC's have 2000 g.p. in their pockets, they have not increased their utility at all - indeed, all that encumbrance might mean they've reduced it. </p><p></p><p>That's why I state that I don't bother to follow wealth by level, and rely on the older system of semi-random treasures and keeping an eye as a DM on party capability to make sure that they have enough items to face the challenges they are expected to face. That means noticing when a party member is falling behind, and placing treasures of great utility to them in their path, and conversely drying up the treasures when a party member starts to look overly optimized in their gear. The value of the gear isn't something I spend much (or any) time considering at all. It's the utility that matters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7094835, member: 4937"] No such simple scale exists, because there is no good conversion between money and utility. Even assuming such a scale could exist, it would first require you to tweak the existing magic item cost/magic item creation system so that items were well balanced according to price. And even then, you would need an assumption that players had the will and ability to maximize their utility given the resources that they have. And that requires that you have fungible wealth, meaning that whatever the players find, they can freely convert it into the items that have the most utility for their character. For example, supposing that magical weapon prices are well balanced, the part discovers a two-handed sword +5 - worth ~50,000 g.p. If the party contains a two-handed weapon wielder like a barbarian or a fighter specialized in the two-handed sword, then that additional wealth does reflect additional party capability. But if the party is entirely spell-casters without martial weapon proficiency, then the weapon represents a great influx of wealth on paper, but in practice little or no increase in their capabilities as a party. The situation gets worse with respect to items that are poorly costed which includes pretty much any use activated item that grants a spell effect or buff that is probably underleveled - fly and invisibility come to mind immediately, but there are many others. In particular, watch out for buffs that last rounds when cast as a spell, but become permanent when in an item, or buffs that are quickened when on an item (free actions). They are all undercosted in stock 3.X, because stock 3.X doesn't price in the value of increasing the duration of a spell. And of course, there are items where the cost system works fairly well, but are circumstantially broken- the most famous of which is the wand of cure light wounds. Depending on what exactly the wealth translates into, you get completely different adventuring utility. If the PC's inherit a cabbage farm, a cottage, a cart, a mule, and two oxen, that might add up to a magic item in value, but not in (immediate) utility. Equally obviously once it's stated but perhaps more easily overlooked, if the PC's have 2000 g.p. in their pockets, they have not increased their utility at all - indeed, all that encumbrance might mean they've reduced it. That's why I state that I don't bother to follow wealth by level, and rely on the older system of semi-random treasures and keeping an eye as a DM on party capability to make sure that they have enough items to face the challenges they are expected to face. That means noticing when a party member is falling behind, and placing treasures of great utility to them in their path, and conversely drying up the treasures when a party member starts to look overly optimized in their gear. The value of the gear isn't something I spend much (or any) time considering at all. It's the utility that matters. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On character wealth an d game balance
Top