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On Skilled Play: D&D as a Game
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8287306" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Which means classic D&D is not the right game for playing any sort of character who isn't all about careful systematic exploration of the 'delve' or other high lethality situation. This gets you into another long and complex discussion of the dissonance between the PRESENTATION of D&D, as a game of heroic fantasy RP, and the dungeon crawling problem-solving reality of the game. Eventually high-level play does converge towards a more heroic game, but few players make it to those levels (I think in my experience less than 20% of campaigns have achieved 'name level' in actual play). </p><p></p><p>Even if you made it to, lets say level 7 where a more open-ended and less 'grub around in the shadows trying to steal treasure' type of game becomes possible, the rules then basically break down. Character (player) options become so much greater that it becomes impossible for the DM to anticipate where and how the action will go, and thus the 'play against my prepared gauntlet of obstacles' breaks down into a process of full extemporizing on basic plot/location information. Here D&D's process and agenda simply aren't sufficient to support play much at all. The rules work to an extent, but in essence the game becomes entirely one where the players ask the DM what his imagination suggests happens when they attempt to do things.</p><p></p><p>2e ironically, by recognizing these facts and attempting to 'go with the flow' really made things worse by eliminating much of the original dungeon crawl agenda and mechanics. IMHO unfortunately, 5e pretty much picks up where 2e left off.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8287306, member: 82106"] Which means classic D&D is not the right game for playing any sort of character who isn't all about careful systematic exploration of the 'delve' or other high lethality situation. This gets you into another long and complex discussion of the dissonance between the PRESENTATION of D&D, as a game of heroic fantasy RP, and the dungeon crawling problem-solving reality of the game. Eventually high-level play does converge towards a more heroic game, but few players make it to those levels (I think in my experience less than 20% of campaigns have achieved 'name level' in actual play). Even if you made it to, lets say level 7 where a more open-ended and less 'grub around in the shadows trying to steal treasure' type of game becomes possible, the rules then basically break down. Character (player) options become so much greater that it becomes impossible for the DM to anticipate where and how the action will go, and thus the 'play against my prepared gauntlet of obstacles' breaks down into a process of full extemporizing on basic plot/location information. Here D&D's process and agenda simply aren't sufficient to support play much at all. The rules work to an extent, but in essence the game becomes entirely one where the players ask the DM what his imagination suggests happens when they attempt to do things. 2e ironically, by recognizing these facts and attempting to 'go with the flow' really made things worse by eliminating much of the original dungeon crawl agenda and mechanics. IMHO unfortunately, 5e pretty much picks up where 2e left off. [/QUOTE]
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