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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8295824" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>This whole post makes me realize we are talking about THREE stances here!</p><p></p><p>The GAMIST player is simply making moves with his character in 'pawn stance' where his goals are [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s 'win cons' for the particular game being played. Maybe you are implying your 'spreadsheet expert' (we all have one) friend plays this way, at least primarily. This is the stance which is most rewarded in GSP, presumably. Even alignment penalties being mostly a minor additional constraint abstractly based on 'character' (but so abstract it rarely produces really strong constraints). Samwise in this stance obtains the ring from Frodo's corpse, goes back to the shire (enstaving Saruman on his way) and rules it as a dread king.</p><p></p><p>The DRAMATIST is playing his character in '1st person', that is inhabiting the PC's mental and emotional state and deciding her actions based on that understanding/empathy. This seems to conform to what you claim to be doing with your BW character. You've already noted that BW supplies some mechanical rewards for this, although your gamist stance friend seems to be managing to reap at least as much, maybe more (my understanding of the details of the BW rules is a bit crude). This Samwise stands by his master's 'corpse', come what may.</p><p></p><p>The NARRATIVIST is playing in a stance where they make decisions based not on what their character 'would do' nor on mechanical considerations, but on what furthers the overall story itself. This is a different stance. This is the Samwise who marches across the threshold into Mordor, and then only rescues Frodo when he happens to find out he's still alive (which obviously the narrative should facilitate, maybe he gets to pick this via some meta-game actions).</p><p></p><p>I make no claim that this is an all-inclusive list of possible stances, but each could support its own game system, surely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8295824, member: 82106"] This whole post makes me realize we are talking about THREE stances here! The GAMIST player is simply making moves with his character in 'pawn stance' where his goals are [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s 'win cons' for the particular game being played. Maybe you are implying your 'spreadsheet expert' (we all have one) friend plays this way, at least primarily. This is the stance which is most rewarded in GSP, presumably. Even alignment penalties being mostly a minor additional constraint abstractly based on 'character' (but so abstract it rarely produces really strong constraints). Samwise in this stance obtains the ring from Frodo's corpse, goes back to the shire (enstaving Saruman on his way) and rules it as a dread king. The DRAMATIST is playing his character in '1st person', that is inhabiting the PC's mental and emotional state and deciding her actions based on that understanding/empathy. This seems to conform to what you claim to be doing with your BW character. You've already noted that BW supplies some mechanical rewards for this, although your gamist stance friend seems to be managing to reap at least as much, maybe more (my understanding of the details of the BW rules is a bit crude). This Samwise stands by his master's 'corpse', come what may. The NARRATIVIST is playing in a stance where they make decisions based not on what their character 'would do' nor on mechanical considerations, but on what furthers the overall story itself. This is a different stance. This is the Samwise who marches across the threshold into Mordor, and then only rescues Frodo when he happens to find out he's still alive (which obviously the narrative should facilitate, maybe he gets to pick this via some meta-game actions). I make no claim that this is an all-inclusive list of possible stances, but each could support its own game system, surely. [/QUOTE]
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