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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On the Evolution of Fantasy and D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8605571" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I blame fudging. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>Actually, as flip as that is, I wonder if there isn't some truth to that. The notion that AD&D is this very high lethality game is predicated on the notion that the players are not creating characters that are ... shall we say... suspiciously ahead of the probability curve? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>But, then you run into things like generous creation methods - even before Unearthed Arcana, we mixed both 4d6 drop the lowest with Basic/Expert rules that let you trade 2 for 1 Str, Int and Wis up or down or increase Dex. Only Con and Cha were not adjustable. So, when I talk about fighters always having 18 percentile strength, well, of course we did - you simply dropped Int and Wis and got that all important 18.</p><p></p><p>Multiply that by all PC's and suddenly you have a group that is punching WAAAAAY above it's weight class. Instead of doing d8+1 damage, you're dealing d8+4 or 5 plus magic items and whatnot. Then, you get into 2e where the fighters are absolute killing machines capable of dealing 30, 40 points of damage in a single round, even at 1st level and suddenly those old 1e modules are made of so much tissue paper.</p><p></p><p>The issue with older D&D is that the math was so fragile that you actually had to work pretty hard not to break the system. Robustness was a much later development.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8605571, member: 22779"] I blame fudging. :D Actually, as flip as that is, I wonder if there isn't some truth to that. The notion that AD&D is this very high lethality game is predicated on the notion that the players are not creating characters that are ... shall we say... suspiciously ahead of the probability curve? :P But, then you run into things like generous creation methods - even before Unearthed Arcana, we mixed both 4d6 drop the lowest with Basic/Expert rules that let you trade 2 for 1 Str, Int and Wis up or down or increase Dex. Only Con and Cha were not adjustable. So, when I talk about fighters always having 18 percentile strength, well, of course we did - you simply dropped Int and Wis and got that all important 18. Multiply that by all PC's and suddenly you have a group that is punching WAAAAAY above it's weight class. Instead of doing d8+1 damage, you're dealing d8+4 or 5 plus magic items and whatnot. Then, you get into 2e where the fighters are absolute killing machines capable of dealing 30, 40 points of damage in a single round, even at 1st level and suddenly those old 1e modules are made of so much tissue paper. The issue with older D&D is that the math was so fragile that you actually had to work pretty hard not to break the system. Robustness was a much later development. [/QUOTE]
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